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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Okay, whew!
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😉</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(Gadzooks, I learned on a recent visit there, is local to Phoenix, and thus has a stand at Diamondbacks stadium. And, my oh my, do they have a grapefruit margarita and a
plate of nachos that are unlike any other anywhere. God bless the usher who suggested it to me. So, there was pedigree to my ridiculous suggestion . . . and it made me hungry and thirsty using it . . . )
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 1, 2023 4:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] The chart<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oh heck, I just meant that we’re struck with it if we use the term “by representation” in a Will without further explanation. Of course a Will can redefine the term or better yet, use a completely different term and define that different
term carefully. By Gadzooks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sayre Law Offices, PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1417 31st Ave South<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seattle WA 98144-3909<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:eric@sayrelawoffices.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">eric@sayrelawoffices.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 1, 2023 3:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] The chart<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Eric,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You say “</span>we are bound by the definition of ‘representation’ in
<a href="https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.02.005">RCW 11.02.005(17)</a>, as another poster mentioned. And case law makes ‘per stirpes’ equivalent to that.<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You mean in intestacy or with respect to documents that use the terms
<u>without</u> defining them, right? If I’m incorrect, on what basis are we “stuck” with them superior to a testator’s or trustor’s intentions expressed in a valid will or trust?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Josh
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>TJW<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 1, 2023 3:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] The chart<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Nicely done, Eric……… “per usual” which is not a probate term.
</span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">😊</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas J. Westbrook<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Attorney at Law<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="152" height="62" style="width:1.5833in;height:.6428in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D9DCF5.DEEA5E20"></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;color:#1F497D">324 West Bay Drive NW, Suite 201<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;color:#1F497D">Olympia, WA 98502<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;color:#1F497D">(360) 866-4000 phone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;color:#1F497D">(360) 866--3832 fax<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.buddbaylaw.com/">www.buddbaylaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">COVID POLICY:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1F497D">Our firm continues to follow guidance from the CDC and Governor Inslee’s office regarding social distancing and the wearing of face coverings, and we encourage the public and our clients to do the same. Our
staff is still working remotely much of the time so electronic communication by phone and email continues to be encouraged. We appreciate your patience and understanding.</span></i><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 01, 2023 3:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] The chart<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This chart is not right under Washington law—there is no difference between “per stirpes” and “by representation” in Washington: the terms mean the same thing.
<u>Johnson v. Huntley</u>, 39 Wn.2d 499, 504, 236 P.2d 776 (1951). They both mean basically per stirpes, but with a specific Washington modification to the traditional per stirpes: the per stirpes does not kick in until the first generation where there is a
living heir.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Washington per stirpes and by right of representation</u>: If a decedent has any living children, then division starts there, equal shares to each living child, and to each deceased child who had issue. If decedent has no living children,
then division starts at grandchildren, equal shares to each living grandchild, and to each deceased grandchild who had issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Traditional per stirpes</u>: Equal shares always starts at level of decedent’s children, even if none of them are alive. Equal shares to each living child and each deceased child who had issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There’s a great explanation of this, with charts, in Reutlinger’s
<i>Washington Law of Wills and Intestate Succession</i>, 3d ed., Ch. 1(D) (WSBA 2018).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This chart’s “by representation” actually follows the Uniform Probate Code, which refers to the scheme as “per capita at each generation.” Washington’s scheme is apparently called by the UPC “per capita with representation” to distinguish
it from traditional per stirpes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And to put a final stake in it, we are bound by the definition of “representation” in
<a href="https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.02.005">RCW 11.02.005(17)</a>, as another poster mentioned. And case law makes “per stirpes” equivalent to that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So: As far as Washington is concerned, the terms “per stirpes” and “by representation” mean the same thing, but they mean “per capita with representation” and are not equivalent to “per stirpes” or “by representation” as those terms are
used in other jurisdictions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just realized: I’ve never considered this issue when interpreting a foreign Will. I guess will have to think about that now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sayre Law Offices, PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1417 31st Ave South<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seattle WA 98144-3909<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:eric@sayrelawoffices.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">eric@sayrelawoffices.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Donahue<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 1, 2023 1:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] The chart<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
Susan Donahue <o:p></o:p></p>
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