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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I don’t disagree with Phil about a firm, that seems to go on forever, keeping the original Wills. Of course, Bogle & Gates broke up one night after 100 years. I worry more about solos like me, that have a finite existence, holding onto such documents. My frustration are my clients lack of ability to put the originals in a safe, locatable, place. We require all clients sign a receipt saying they are taking the originals, and a copy. This year we had a client sign and take the original Will and then move to New York State. After the client died, the kids, one of which was hear with the parent, said we had not given them the original. The simple answer to the NY lawyer was, the originals walked out the same door, and at the same time, as the copy; if they have one, they have the other. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jeff<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>W. Jeff Davis<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>BELL & DAVIS PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Attorneys at Law</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><br>P.O. Box 510<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>720 E. Washington Street, Suite 105<br>Sequim WA 98382<br>Phone: (360) 683.1129 <br>Fax: (360) 683.1258 <br>email: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><span style='color:black'><br></span></span><a href="http://www.bellanddavispllc.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue'>www.bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><br> <br>The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at </span><a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue'>info@bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> or call 360.683.1129.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Hawkes<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2022 3:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] No Trust Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I recently had an inquiry from a couple who executed wills twenty ears ago with a solo lawyer who died t wo years ago. His widow says no files. There should at least be a clear document kept and findable forever as to who has the original and how it was kept or delivered. The word ‘forever’ frightens me, though. We give original and a copy to the client and keep an electronic copy; paper and electronic copy are both admittable in Washington provided there is extra statement in the petition about what happened and whey it is unlikely the testator intended to revoke.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Philip N. Jones<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2022 3:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] No Trust Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>In Oregon, there is a judicial presumption that if the original will was in the client’s possession and cannot be found after death, it is rebuttably presumed to have been destroyed with intent to revoke. But if the attorney loses the original, no such presumption arises and a photocopy can easily be probated. So I do not see much risk to my firm holding the original will. Although we may have a duty to safeguard, I see little risk in a possible breach of that duty. Since the founding of our firm in 1933, I believe that we have never lost a will.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The Oregon State Bar advises against keeping originals wills because of the responsibility involved. I do not agree. It is a valuable service to the client, with little or no risk to the attorney. I always give the client a choice as to where the original should be kept, and they almost always want my firm to hold the originals.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>As for accounting for the will, we informed the client on the date of signing that we would hold the will. I am not aware of any other duty to account. We place a rubber stamp on the client’s copies informing the client that the original is at our office. If anyone finds the copy after death, they know where to go to get the original. If they want to use another firm to probate the will, we gladly turn over the original to the person named as PR in the will.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I know of one firm that has their clients sign two original wills. Egads.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Phil Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Philip N. Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Duffy Kekel LLP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Portland, OR 97204<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com">pjones@duffykekel.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 226-1371 – office<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 853-1482 – cell<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 226-3574 - fax<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Hawkes<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2022 2:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] No Trust Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bear in mind that the original is client property and needs to be safeguarded and accounted for as such.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Philip N. Jones<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2022 2:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] No Trust Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I do not have a solution to your problem, but I do have some related comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I have always been an advocate for the firm keeping original wills and trusts, not to generate business, but as a service to the client. It is very comforting when a client calls and says his Mom died, to say that I have her original documents in my office.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Not everyone agrees with me. People in smaller firms worry (rightly so) about what happens when attorneys die or retire. People in medium or large firms have an easier time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>But at an absolute minimum, the attorney should retain a copy of all signed documents, either in hard copy or in scanned electronic copy. It is the very least you can do. Anything less is negligent. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is a service industry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Phil Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Philip N. Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Duffy Kekel LLP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Portland, OR 97204<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com">pjones@duffykekel.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 226-1371 – office<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 853-1482 – cell<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>(503) 226-3574 - fax<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Jeff@bellanddavispllc.com">Jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2022 1:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] No Trust Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Listmates:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Way back, well before the turn of the century, when I started practicing law, the firm I joined had a large file cabinet full of original Wills/Trusts. It seemed like a nice way to generate work as the clients passed on the firm naturally got to probate or administered the estate. However, we also discovered attorney’s pass on and the firm ended up needing to disburse the original documents. So we got away from that practice of keeping the originals, and instead, trusted their safe keeping to the clients.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Well, for the third or fourth time this year, a client cannot find the original document, in this case, a living trust. Client has no copy of the trust agreement (even an unsigned copy) or even a trust certificate, nothing. (the lawyer who created it is long dead). The house is in trust. Client is the surviving spouse. There are children, some of which the client wants to disinherit. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What should be done? Will a title company insure the transfer of the house out of trust to the survivor? Do I just make up a new trust documents calling it a restatement. I am not sure if TEDRA is the way to go.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jeff Davis<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>W. Jeff Davis<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>BELL & DAVIS PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Attorneys at Law</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><br>P.O. Box 510<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>720 E. Washington Street, Suite 105<br>Sequim WA 98382<br>Phone: (360) 683.1129 <br>Fax: (360) 683.1258 <br>email: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><span style='color:black'><br></span></span><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bellanddavispllc.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cpjones%40duffykekel.com%7Cbfc4acfb2ce14d12e5f808da95d33642%7C2d66ed5354fa4c2f8c4dbff1aca5479d%7C0%7C0%7C637987031656621121%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y5G2cThWhceeFifCP71ACOVhOaiQWfla5DaBI0g%2B5A8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue'>www.bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><br> <br>The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at </span><a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue'>info@bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> or call 360.683.1129.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>