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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Snohomish County is pretty uniform between all the commissioners that a death certificate or some other information (usually in declaration form) is needed. This would apply not only to probates but to certain
other types of action (e.g., new minor guardianships where parent is deceased). <o:p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Inge Fordham<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 11:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Eric on the verified petition and our duties as officers of the court. Unfortunately, not all courts agree. I attempted to file a petition in Pierce County recently where a family needed to commence probate before the death
certificate was issued. The petition was kicked back and the Commissioner specifically requested a death certificate. Different Commissioners may have different standards (at least in Pierce Co.). Kind of like filing in the Auditor’s Office…. It really
depends on who you get and their subjective belief as to what evidence is “enough.” You would think a rule such as this would be uniform (and evidentiary standards as well) but application and interpretation varies.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> on behalf of Eric Nelsen <<a href="mailto:eric@sayrelawoffices.com">eric@sayrelawoffices.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 11:48 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In King County I have had mixed experience with this, but only recently. I never had a petition bounced for it until a few years ago. Now, if it’s Judge Shaffer, my petition gets bounced if I don’t provide separate proof of death. But I
think she is the only one who has done that. I just re-submit with a declaration that I’m not filing a death cert but I have other information (contact with or receipt from funeral home, or some other evidence that the person truly has died) confirming that
the person has in fact died.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the issue in general, I’m not aware that there has ever been formal rule, statewide or in any county that I practice in (mostly King and Snohomish, a little Pierce in the past), that required submission of a death certificate to start
a probate. So far as I know, this whole issue cropped up maybe 6-8 years ago when suddenly I started hearing from some practitioners in King County about being asked for one. Maybe Snohomish County as well? But I don’t think it was a rule and in my experience
it wasn’t coordinated or consistently applied; as I said, I never provided a death certificate for many years, either in prepping docs as a paralegal (since 1994) or as a lawyer (since 2001).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As an evidentiary matter a probate has always required a <i>
verified</i> petition, and the petition generally includes a recital that the person died on date X in place Y as a resident of place Z. We are bound by CR 11 to our due diligence plus RPC 3.3(f) heightened duty when presenting ex parte, and the client is signing
under penalty of perjury, so that verified petition all by itself is valid evidence of death that the Court is perfectly entitled to accept as sufficient. And I think that, if the Court grants the submitting lawyer the dignity of assuming that they’re meeting
their professional diligence requirements, the Court should take the petition as sufficient evidence, and not require a separate declaration or a copy of the death certificate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not think we should be required to interrogate our client, or distrust them, to the point that we must have a death certificate. Especially since they are often delayed these days. Lots of times there is plenty of circumstantial evidence
that a death has occurred—obituary or death notice published, or even just contact with multiple family members, or even the client’s say-so coupled with their behavior that is clearly consistent with a genuine loss and a genuine effort to contact other family
members and start getting things in order. I don’t think this even requires special inquiry with the client; perfectly routine questions for other purposes, such as costs of disposition and funeral arrangements, can silently also provide sufficient corroborating
evidence.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It doesn’t mean that we could never be deceived; but we’re not required to be infallible. Our duty is not to definitively prove that a person is dead; we just have to be confident we’ve met CR 11 and RPC 3.3(f).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sayre Law Offices, PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1417 31st Ave South<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seattle WA 98144-3909<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:eric@sayrelawoffices.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">eric@sayrelawoffices.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heather de Vrieze<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Yes, King County has required proof of death, in the form of an attorney affidavit or death certificate for several years now. I am not aware of any change to that requirement. I generally use the option of
an affidavit I sign indicating what my evidence of death is (death certificate, conversation with ME or funeral home, etc.).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Heather<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Vladimir Script";color:#1F497D">Heather S. de Vrieze</span><b><span style="font-size:16.0pt;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span></b><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D">Attorney-at-Law<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E">3909 California Avenue SW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dalynne Singleton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">I recently opened a King County probate and the Commissioner returned my papers indicating “he needed proof of death” even though Petition was verified by the mother of the decedent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">So, I prepared a declaration and submitted it with cremation receipt, then the order was signed and Letters issued.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dalynne Singleton</span></i></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Gourley Law Group</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Snohomish Escrow</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The Exchange Connection</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1002 10<sup>th</sup> Street / PO Box 1091</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Snohomish, WA 98291</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">360.568.5065</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">360.568.1717 fax</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0563C1"><a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">dalynne@glgmail.com</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Westbrook<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Dalynnne. Good info.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best Regards, Tom <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> on behalf of Dalynne Singleton <<a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com">dalynne@glgmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:33:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">This is true but you do need proof of death which has usually been to provide the death certificate with redacted SSN. It is a negative rule – most local court rules do not require death certificates to
open probate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">But, given the slow nature and difficulty of receiving WA death certificates of late, I now prepare a Declaration and provide the court with proof of death in another way – cremation receipt, funeral home/memorial
confirmation/receipt, newspaper or obituary, etc. If none of those, a Declaration of next of kin as to the death can usually suffice.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dalynne Singleton</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Gourley Law Group</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Snohomish Escrow</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The Exchange Connection</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1002 10<sup>th</sup> Street / PO Box 1091</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Snohomish, WA 98291</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">360.568.5065</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">360.568.1717 fax</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0563C1"><a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">dalynne@glgmail.com</span></a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">Website:
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www.glglawgroup.com</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">As we face the challenges presented by COVID-19, Attorney/client meetings will be handled by teleconference or virtually whenever possible. Be assured that we will continue
to advise & support our clients throughout this health emergency. If you would like to set a Zoom or telephone conference with me, please call or email my paralegal
<a href="mailto:theresa@glgmail.com" target="_blank">theresa@glgmail.com</a>, <a href="mailto:dara@glgmail.com" target="_blank">
dara@glgmail.com</a> or <a href="mailto:cameron@glgmail.com">cameron@glgmail.com</a>.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><i><span style="font-family:Californian;color:black">LICENSED</span></i><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Californian;color:black"> IN WASHINGTON AND OREGON</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Westbrook<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 9, 2022 12:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Requirement for Death Cert in Probate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Greetings all, it is my understanding that we no longer have a state wide requirement to have a death certificate to open a probate proceeding. Can someone please</span>
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">confirm this and point me in the right direction for authority.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Tom</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thomas J. Westbrook</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Attorney at Law</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="color:red">COVID POLICY:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i><span style="color:#1F497D">Our firm continues to follow guidance from the CDC and Governor Inslee’s office regarding social distancing and the wearing of face coverings, and we encourage the public and our clients to do the same. Our staff is still
working remotely much of the time so electronic communication by phone and email continues to be encouraged. We appreciate your patience and understanding.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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