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<div dir="ltr">Nothing more is required than the two “electronic presence witnesses’” unsworn statement under RCW 5.50. See this part of my email at bottom from 1/13 at 11:29 AM: “[W]<span style="caret-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; display: inline !important;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); display: inline !important;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">e
read RCW 11.12.450 (particularly (3)(b) incorporating RCW 5.50) to permit two people on the videoconference with the testator, with no actual remote online notary required (for the will at least), which two people can witness the e-will.<span> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: inherit;">“</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: inherit;">If you submit a printed certified copy, it’s going to contain the two witnesses’ e-signatures along with the testator’s e-signature. </span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: inherit;">If you are asking a different question, please forgive me and give me another shot. ;)</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Best, Josh </div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Joshua D. McKarcher</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">McKarcher Law PLLC</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">537 6th Street</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Clarkston, WA 99403</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">(509) 758-3345</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;text-align:left" dir="auto"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com" style="">www.mckarcherlaw.com</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: -apple-system, HelveticaNeue; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;"></span></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Diane J. Kiepe <DJKiepe@depdslaw.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] First e-will signing - e-presence of 2 witnesses under 5.50
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<span style="font-size:16.0pt">First let me confess, I have not even thought about remote e-signing so forgive me if my question would blatantly be answered in the statute –
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<span style="font-size:16.0pt">Upon opening a probate, what is required to prove the Will if the 2 witnesses are not notarized? Is it the same rule of proof we are use two for non-self-proving Wills?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:16.0pt">Thanks in advance – I’m one of those oldies </span>
<span style="font-size:16.0pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😉</span><span style="font-size:16.0pt"></span></p>
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<i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold"">Diane J. Kiepe</span></i></p>
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<i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold""> </span></i></p>
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Diane J. Kiepe</p>
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Douglas Eden</p>
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717 W. Sprague Ave.</p>
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Suite 1500</p>
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Spokane, WA 99201</p>
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<a href="mailto:djkiepe@depdslaw.com"><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">djkiepe@depdslaw.com</span></a></p>
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509-455-5300</p>
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<b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 13, 2022 12:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] First e-will signing - e-presence of 2 witnesses under 5.50</p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law is custodian under pursuant to 11.12.460(1)(d). This just isn’t as burdensome as keeping a safe full of original paper wills, which I decline to do for all but the nearest-to-death
clients with NO family issues.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I do not read the statute to disallow one qualified custodian to transfer custodianship to another qualified custodian. Specifically, I read .470(1)(b) to permit the “last in line” qualified
custodian to provide the affidavit required; and I expect that, if it was transferred, the affidavit would ADD to the listed requirements, the affiant’s understanding (or even maybe “proof”) of which qualified custodian(s) held the will previous to the “last
in line” qualified custodian/affiant.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">And, in any event, if the custodians screw up, the will can be proved like a “lost will” under the revised RCW 11.20.070. And, if there is good evidence that the document has not been modified
since signing, admission to probate will be less difficult that admission of a truly lost paper will. I expect these will usually be “secure PDFs” with a “modified” file time/date stamp in, say, Windows or Mac “file explorer” that can easily be rendered on
a computer screen; and, indeed, a screenshot of that unmodified date/time stamp for the subject PDF could even easily be added to the custodian’s affidavit. Not so difficult to connect the dots WHEN NEEDED, and it usually won’t be.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I do think the legislature could do us all a favor and add a sentence to .460 or .470 to expressly state something like “A qualified custodian may transfer custodianship to another qualified
custodian.” If the first is “still alive” s/he/it could simply provide an affidavit of their own to the successor custodian, which could be an exhibit to the “last in line” custodian’s post-death affidavit.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">And, in the age of end-to-end encrypted cloud storage and secure links/downloads, this all just doesn’t have to be that difficult and elusive. It can be done smartly and securely and solve
a lot of peoples’ difficult situations in ways that courts won’t have to rend their garments to adjudicate.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All the best, Josh</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com">www.mckarcherlaw.com</a></span></p>
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<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Laura Latta<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] First e-will signing - e-presence of 2 witnesses under 5.50</p>
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Joshua,</p>
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Thank you for sharing your practice with us as you blaze this trail. I often joke with my clients that the legal industry is stuck in the 1800s. It's good to see us inching forward. Would you be willing to share how you are handling the qualified custodian
requirements? Are you serving as the qualified custodian or is that Simplifile's role?</p>
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Warmly,</p>
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Laura</p>
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On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 11:29 AM Joshua McKarcher <<a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fearless Fellow Estate Planners of Washington:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Today we will assist a client in signing the first Washington electronic will in our practice. We have found Simplifile’s RON platform as useful as its e-recording platform, and I recommend
it if you wish to find a solution for your practice. (They are incredibly open to feedback from the non-real-estate-closing-agent RON users among us.)</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you wish to play along, we read RCW 11.12.450 (particularly (3)(b) incorporating RCW 5.50) to permit two people on the videoconference with the testator, with no actual remote online notary
required (for the will at least), which two people can witness the e-will. If you read it otherwise, I would be grateful for the perspective.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Indeed, for whatever it’s worth, I share below the asterisks our “e-will signature block when e-signed under 5.50” (which is nothing spectacular, mostly just a reformatting of the statute sub
3(b), with reader-friendly citations following “Pursuant to”). We will use Simplifile to e-sign in a videoconference. We intend to have our testator e-initial each page of the will for whatever that is worth to those still reading.
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">This has all turned out to be pretty straightforward, especially if you have done a non-will RON session or two first. All my best, Josh</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com" target="_blank">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com" target="_blank">www.mckarcherlaw.com</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Pursuant to RCW 11.12.450, I, First M. Last, the Testator, declare under penalty of perjury under the law of Washington that the following is true and correct: That I sign this instrument as my electronic will,
I willingly sign it, I execute it as my voluntary act for the purposes expressed in this instrument, and I am 18 years of age or older, of sound mind, and under no constraint or undue influence.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">First M. Last, Testator</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Pursuant to RCW 11.12.450 and chapter 5.50 RCW, w<span style="letter-spacing:-.1pt">e,
</span>Kaitlyn M. Landreth<span style="letter-spacing:-.1pt"> and </span>Mary E. Briggs<span style="letter-spacing:-.1pt">, witnesses, declare under penalty of perjury under the law of Washington that the following is true and correct: That the Testator signed
this instrument as the Testator’s electronic will, that the Testator willingly signed it, and that each of us, in the electronic presence of the Testator, signs this instrument as witness to the Testator’s signing, and to the best of our knowledge the Testator
is 18 years of age or older, of sound mind, and under no constraint or undue influence.</span></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Kaitlyn M. Landreth, Witness</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, Washington 99403</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Mary E. Briggs, Witness</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, Washington 99403</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(69, 129, 142);">Laura Latta<br>
Law Office of Laura Latta PLLC</span></b></p>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">she/her</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; line-height:13.15pt; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Phone (206) 841-2344</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><a href="http://www.LauraLatta.com" target="_blank">www.LauraLatta.com</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; line-height:13.15pt; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">PO Box 82356</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Kenmore, WA 98028</span></p>
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<span style="color: rgb(19, 79, 92);"> </span></p>
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