<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Doug:<div><br></div><div>You’re right that a trust agreement, as a contract, is not required to be acknowledged. Nevertheless, it has always been my practice to acknowledge trust agreements and financial powers of attorney whenever there is the possibility the fiduciary would need to record the instrument in connection with a real estate conveyance. Title companies often require the instrument authorizing the fiduciary to be recorded with the same formality as the deed. </div><div><br></div><div>John J. Sullivan <br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Dec 21, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Doug Schafer <schafer@pobox.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I'm aware of no rule that
requires signatures on a declaration of trust or a trust agreement
to be notarized. If such a rule exists, please cite it. I
recognize that some third parties might mistakenly believe that
the trust is not "legal" unless signatures are notarized, but ...<br>
<br>
Doug Schafer, in Tacoma.<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/21/2020 15:13, Setareh Mahmoodi
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAE-FwjszPZRmzSao=jAT56Fo_0btfVLQumNod3O_+Q3+jPJs4g@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I agree with Joshua. I think so long as you are
having the trustmaker sign as the trustmaker and trustee and the
son-in-law as the co-trustee, there are no issues with one
notary block so long as everyone is properly identified with
their roles/capacity in that notary block. If you do separate
blocks, they can definitely be on separate pages. You can use
dashes at the bottom of the pages to show continuity as well as
page x of y format for the page numbers and/or have the
trustmaker initial the pages if you are concerned. Sometimes I
include the total number of pages in the notary block as well if
the circumstances warrant it. However, similar to Joshua, I have
not had anyone raise any issues with notary blocks being on
separate pages etc. This often happens in deed signings as
well. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 2:07
PM Joshua McKarcher <<a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com" moz-do-not-send="true">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_-6356631255008250611WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Suzanne,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">I’m unaware of any rule that
requires a notary block (or certificate) to be on the
same page as the signature acknowledged. Indeed, a
notary certificate would ordinarily (or “in the old
days”) be affixed to the document containing the
acknowledged signature. I personally use Word’s “Keep
With Next” paragraph formatting to keep the lines of
an entire notary block (from STATE OF through line
containing notary expiration date below signature)
“together” on the same page. But for that notary block
to be on the page following the signer’s signature is
unexceptional to me. I’ve never had even a Notorious
Big Bank give me trouble on that one.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Also, given the relationship of the
two parties, I personally would have them sign
separate signature lines and notarize their signatures
in separate notary blocks. I don’t know that a notary
block is “invalid” if you tried to put them both in
one block, but you’d have to very careful to recite
exactly the capacity in which each is signing (“by,
as, of,” following the lovely short form
acknowledgement). And, besides that, it would just
strike me as odd visually to have a person and her
son-in-law in one notary block, as I ordinarily would
only do that for a married couple (or “maybe” two
representatives of the same entity signing in
straightforward representative capacities, I suppose).
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Else, it seems perfectly fine to
set it up for grantor to sign (presumably as both
grantor and co-trustee), then co-trustee to sign as
co-trustee; and then to have successive notary blocks
for one and then the other, even if one or both is on
the page following signatures.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">I hope that helps. All the best,
Josh</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">www.mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Suzanne Lieberman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 21, 2020 12:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Questions re notary blocks
for trust</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are doing a revocable living
trust for a client who is the trustor, but who will
serve as co-trustee with her son-in-law. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Where is the rule or guidance
indicating that two notary blocks are needed (one
for each co-trustee signature), and should the
notary blocks be placed side-by-side or can the
block for the second signature be placed on a second
page if there is insufficient space on the first?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Sincerely, </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Suzanne
Lieberman</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><a href="http://cmslawfirm.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">CMS
Law Firm LLC</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">811
Kirkland Ave. Suite 201 </span></b><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">(please
note new address!)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Kirkland,
WA 98033</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">206-383-6484
(Cell Phone)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">206-659-1512
(Main Office)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Legal stuff
I have to put in... <i>To ensure
compliance with Treasury Department
and IRS regulations, we inform you
that, unless expressly indicated
otherwise, any federal tax advice
contained in this communication
(including any attachments) is not
intended or written by CMS Law Firm
LLC to be used, and cannot be used
by the taxpayer, for the purpose of:
(i) avoiding penalties that may be
imposed on the taxpayer under the
Internal Revenue Code; or (ii)
promoting, marketing, or
recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed
herein (or any attachments).</i></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is
not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include
non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working
in related fields, and others.***<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
WSBAPT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Best regards, </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Setareh Mahmoodi </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Attorney at Law </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">18222 104th Ave NE, Suite 103</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Bothell, WA 98011</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Phone: 425-806-1500</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Fax: 425-489-4142 (Please email documents if at
all possible)</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-size:10pt"><b>Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SM@LawOfficesofSM.com">SM@LawOfficesofSM.com</a></b></span></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-size:10pt">Website: </span></b><span style="font-size:13.33px"><b><a href="http://www.lawofficesofsm.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.lawofficesofsm.com/</a></b></span></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-size:10pt">CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> This email message and any attachments is a
transmission
from the law
firm and is
intended for
the </span><span style="font-size:13.33px">recipient</span><span style="font-size:10pt"> only.
It may contain
information that
is confidential
and
legally protected
by the
attorney-client,
work product
and/or other
privileges. If
you are not the
designated or
intended
recipient,
please destroy
the message
without
disclosing any
of its contents
and notify us
immediately by
reply email or
by calling (425)
806-1500.</span></p>
<p style="margin:6pt
0in
0pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-size:10pt">Pursuant to U.S. Treasury Department Regulations,
we are now
required to
advise you that,
unless otherwise
expressly
indicated, any
federal tax
advice contained
in this
communication,
including
attachments and
enclosures, is
not intended or
written to be
used, and may
not be used, for
the purpose of
(i) avoiding
tax-related
penalties under
the Internal
Revenue Code or
(ii) promoting,
marketing or
recommending to
another party
any tax-related
matters
addressed
herein.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
_______________________________________________
WSBAPT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" data-unique-identifier=""></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"> </a></div>
<span>***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***</span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>WSBAPT mailing list</span><br><span>WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</span><br><span>http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</span></div></blockquote></div></body></html>