<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I agree with those that say it is not allowed, for the numerous reasons cited. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I did see a case where the PR was allowed a %, but in that case it was unambiguously patently clear on the face of the numbers that the % involved, of a smaller estate, was far less than the time necessary to accomplish the numerous tasks done. The court recognized the law but made a finding that it was facially reasonable as it was clearly far short of a reasonable rate if hours and out of pocket costs had been itemized. As I recall (this was a case I was listening to from the peanut gallery waiting on the docket), when they ran hypothetical numbers reasonably attributed to the task, it was something like 10% of what the court figured the PR could have been entitled to. So with a 90% buffer for error, I think the court found itself safe in its judgment.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">In that case the challenge to PR fees was part of a repetitive baseless contentious approach by one of the heirs, which I am sure played a role. The PR had clearly done the work out of wanting to help out due to a close relationship with the deceased and wanting to see her estate through, so was only looking for nominal compensation. As the PR put it - really to help cover hard expenses like gas, etc. The court observed dryly that at the numbers paid, it would have only covered gas under prices last seen in the '80s, so figured it was reasonable without making the PR go back and itemize everything.</div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">So nothing to negate the advice here; just a story.</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Trebuchet MS" size="2">Carmen Rowe, Attorney/Owner<i><br><div><br></div><div><img width="200" height="71" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=15zvhzee_g-82l9kuambF6sbk-XuJ4EWA&revid=0B-SsegebS6iBQzdKVzdQdkcvSStFYkVuM1VieVNnemFpMVMwPQ"><br></div></i></font></div><div><font face="Trebuchet MS" size="2"><br></font></div></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Trebuchet MS" size="2"></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#660000" face="Trebuchet MS" size="2" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></font></div><div><font color="#660000" face="Trebuchet MS" size="2" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Phone: (360) 669-3576 (direct cell)<br></font></div><div><font color="#660000" face="Trebuchet MS" size="2">Email: Carmen@GryphonLawGroup.com<br><br></font><span><font color="#660000" face="Trebuchet MS" size="2" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b>Mailing address: </b>1673 S. 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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate<br>
as Personal Representative Fee (Jayne Gilbert)<br>
2. Re: Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate<br>
as Personal Representative Fee (Marcus Fry)<br>
3. Reminder - Annual WSBA Probate and Trust CLE this Friday!<br>
(Anna Cashman)<br>
4. Re: Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate<br>
as Personal Representative Fee (Candace Wilkerson)<br>
5. Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as<br>
Personal Representative Fee (Dalynne Singleton)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 19:13:39 -0800<br>
From: Jayne Gilbert <<a href="mailto:jgilbertatty@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgilbertatty@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAEkNtQ1LmG4eSoA90J9R3NdKXKWHETCOQ78qnVc_JH2pdvvxdw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAEkNtQ1LmG4eSoA90J9R3NdKXKWHETCOQ78qnVc_JH2pdvvxdw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I am in agreement w/those who cite CA as a state that allows a percentage<br>
of the Estate's value for fees.<br>
Which is one of the reasons Trusts are the preferred vehicle for the<br>
transfer of wealth in CA.<br>
<br>
Charging a percent of the estate in WA is not a recognized evaluator. It<br>
goes back to attributing time spent,<br>
value of services rendered, expertise and the rest. If the PR cannot<br>
account for his/her time/on specific tasks<br>
when fees are challenged there is trouble in the State of WA and the size<br>
of the estate will not help the<br>
PR much when it comes to accounting if the only thing the PR relies on is a<br>
percentage of the estate.<br>
<br>
It may be a factor to weigh, but the PR must produce some specific<br>
numbers/tasks.<br>
<br>
in my humble opinion. Licensed in both states.<br>
<br>
On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 4:55 PM Inge Fordham <<a href="mailto:inge@fordhamlegal.com" target="_blank">inge@fordhamlegal.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> While that may fly in other states (I believe it?s allowed in CA but don?t<br>
> quote me), I don?t believe that passes muster in WA. I?ve always told PRs<br>
> to keep detailed records of their time.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [image:<br>
> uc%3fexport=download&id=1W3rEcChy0_E0cCfV5up02mkhwnL6eWIs&revid=0B4P5JoIHdbFaR29EbHlRWHFseFV5STZpSUVGeUNPWldkVDFVPQ]<br>
><br>
> *Inge A. Fordham | Attorney*<br>
><br>
> Fordham Law, PLLC<br>
><br>
> 3218 Sixth Avenue | Tacoma, WA 98406<br>
><br>
> Office: (253) 348-2657 | Mobile: (206) 778-3131<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.fordhamlegal.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.fordhamlegal.com</a><br>
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> *From: *<<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> on behalf of "G. Geoffrey<br>
> Gibbs" <<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a>><br>
> *Reply-To: *WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
> *Date: *Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:35 AM<br>
> *To: *"<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>>, WSBA<br>
> Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
> *Subject: *Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
> Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> A percentage fee would not be approved in most of the counties in which I<br>
> practice (absent a specific authorizing provision in the will).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *G. Geoffrey Gibbs | Anderson Hunter Law Firm*<br>
> 2707 Colby Avenue, Ste. 1001 Everett, WA 98201<br>
><br>
> PO Box 5397, Everett, WA 98206-5397<br>
> Phone: (425) 252-5161 | Fax: (425) 258-3345<br>
><br>
> *<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a>> *<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.andersonhunterlaw.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.andersonhunterlaw.com</a><br>
><br>
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> *From:* <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<br>
> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> *On Behalf Of *Jeff Davis<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:24 AM<br>
> *To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
> Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Listmates,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This is a new one for me in over 38 years of practice. Personal<br>
> Representative does not keep track of time but claims that she and her<br>
> husband spent hundreds of hours working on behalf of the estate. Put aside<br>
> the issue of the husband wanting to be paid for his time from the estate,<br>
> their attorney is now telling me that the PR can charge, as her fee, 3% of<br>
> the value of the estate however you figure that out. This probate has been<br>
> going on for over a year with no inventory or accounting, yet the estate is<br>
> ready to close. And yes, I had brought a motion to remove the PR months<br>
> ago, but put if off as PR was moving ahead with liquidating assets. Your<br>
> thoughts on the ?legality? of the fee?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Jeff Davis<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> W. Jeff Davis, Esq.<br>
><br>
> BELL & DAVIS PLLC<br>
> P.O. Box 510<br>
> Sequim WA 98382<br>
> Phone No.:(360) 683.1129<br>
> Fax No.: (360) 683.1258<br>
> email: <a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.bellanddavispllc.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.bellanddavispllc.com</a><br>
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-- <br>
*************************************************<br>
Jayne Marsh Gilbert<br>
Gilbert and Gilbert Lawyers, PS<br>
(360) 336-9515<br>
*************************************************<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 16:27:16 +0000<br>
From: Marcus Fry <<a href="mailto:mfry@lyon-law.com" target="_blank">mfry@lyon-law.com</a>><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:MWHPR14MB163074E268884EEAFBC30ACAF6F30@MWHPR14MB1630.namprd14.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR14MB163074E268884EEAFBC30ACAF6F30@MWHPR14MB1630.namprd14.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Although this was a case about an attorney utilizing attorney?s rates while serving as PR, In re Estate of Dawson (2004-unpublished) provides some good analysis regarding reasonableness of fees for a PR. Note, to my knowledge, our case law does not bar a percentage for a fee, but given that hourly rates have been the standard of practice here in Washington for decades, it would make it difficult to get a finding of reasonableness for using a percentage. However, if the estate was insolvent at the outset and the PR was able to put in the work to not only pay debts but bring some inheritance to the estate?s heirs, I could see a court being persuaded with a percentage take in such instance.<br>
<br>
Marcus J. Fry<br>
Lyon, Weigand & Gustafson, P.S.<br>
P.O. Box 1689<br>
Yakima, Washington 98907<br>
Telephone: (509) 248-7220<br>
Facsimile: (509) 575-1883<br>
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From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Jayne Gilbert<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 7:14 PM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
I am in agreement w/those who cite CA as a state that allows a percentage of the Estate's value for fees.<br>
Which is one of the reasons Trusts are the preferred vehicle for the transfer of wealth in CA.<br>
<br>
Charging a percent of the estate in WA is not a recognized evaluator. It goes back to attributing time spent,<br>
value of services rendered, expertise and the rest. If the PR cannot account for his/her time/on specific tasks<br>
when fees are challenged there is trouble in the State of WA and the size of the estate will not help the<br>
PR much when it comes to accounting if the only thing the PR relies on is a percentage of the estate.<br>
<br>
It may be a factor to weigh, but the PR must produce some specific numbers/tasks.<br>
<br>
in my humble opinion. Licensed in both states.<br>
<br>
On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 4:55 PM Inge Fordham <<a href="mailto:inge@fordhamlegal.com" target="_blank">inge@fordhamlegal.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:inge@fordhamlegal.com" target="_blank">inge@fordhamlegal.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
While that may fly in other states (I believe it?s allowed in CA but don?t quote me), I don?t believe that passes muster in WA. I?ve always told PRs to keep detailed records of their time.<br>
<br>
<br>
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Inge A. Fordham | Attorney<br>
Fordham Law, PLLC<br>
3218 Sixth Avenue | Tacoma, WA 98406<br>
Office: (253) 348-2657 | Mobile: (206) 778-3131<br>
<a href="http://www.fordhamlegal.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.fordhamlegal.com</a><<a href="http://www.fordhamlegal.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.fordhamlegal.com</a>><br>
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From: <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>> on behalf of "G. Geoffrey Gibbs" <<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a>>><br>
Reply-To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>><br>
Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:35 AM<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>>" <<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>>>, WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
A percentage fee would not be approved in most of the counties in which I practice (absent a specific authorizing provision in the will).<br>
<br>
G. Geoffrey Gibbs | Anderson Hunter Law Firm<br>
2707 Colby Avenue, Ste. 1001 Everett, WA 98201<br>
PO Box 5397, Everett, WA 98206-5397<br>
Phone: (425) 252-5161 | Fax: (425) 258-3345<br>
<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com" target="_blank">ggibbs@andersonhunterlaw.com</a>><br>
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From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>> On Behalf Of Jeff Davis<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:24 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
Listmates,<br>
<br>
This is a new one for me in over 38 years of practice. Personal Representative does not keep track of time but claims that she and her husband spent hundreds of hours working on behalf of the estate. Put aside the issue of the husband wanting to be paid for his time from the estate, their attorney is now telling me that the PR can charge, as her fee, 3% of the value of the estate however you figure that out. This probate has been going on for over a year with no inventory or accounting, yet the estate is ready to close. And yes, I had brought a motion to remove the PR months ago, but put if off as PR was moving ahead with liquidating assets. Your thoughts on the ?legality? of the fee?<br>
<br>
Jeff Davis<br>
<br>
W. Jeff Davis, Esq.<br>
BELL & DAVIS PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 510<br>
Sequim WA 98382<br>
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129<br>
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258<br>
email: <a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a>><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:13:37 +0000<br>
From: Anna Cashman <<a href="mailto:acashman@khbblaw.com" target="_blank">acashman@khbblaw.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Reminder - Annual WSBA Probate and Trust CLE this<br>
Friday!<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BY5PR14MB34778F81F816A1171E38E0F6D6F30@BY5PR14MB3477.namprd14.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">BY5PR14MB34778F81F816A1171E38E0F6D6F30@BY5PR14MB3477.namprd14.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Reminder - register now for the annual WSBA Probate and Trust CLE this Friday!<br>
<br>
This seminar will be held via webcast on December 4th. Tune in from the comfort of your home or office for sessions that focus on practical guidance for Washington estate planning and estate administration practitioners. Topics this year include: fiduciary reporting requirements to beneficiaries, an overview of Washington's new Guardianship statute, tips for practicing in the trusts and estate area during Covid, a look at ERISA and the Washington Slayer's Statute, uses for life insurance, and practitioner self-care.<br>
<br>
On behalf of the entire WSBA Real Property Probate and Trust Section and the CLE Co-Chairs, we hope to see you on December 4th.<br>
<br>
Here are the fast facts about "2020 Annual Fall Probate and Trust CLE."<br>
Date: December 4th, 2020<br>
Time: 8:00 a.m. webcast lobby opens, 8:25 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.<br>
Location: Webinar<br>
CLE Credits: 5.75 CLE credits (4.75 Law & Legal Procedure & 1.0 Ethics)<br>
Register now!<br>
<br>
<br>
Anna M. Cashman<br>
[khbb]<br>
Tel (206) 382-4414 ext. 234 / Fax (206) 382-4412 / <a href="mailto:acashman@khbblaw.com" target="_blank">acashman@khbblaw.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:acashman@khbblaw.com" target="_blank">acashman@khbblaw.com</a>><br>
705 Second Avenue / Suite 800 / Seattle, WA 98104 / <a href="http://www.khbblaw.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.khbblaw.com</a><<a href="https://url.emailprotection.link/?bZn_n1FBCmPOos3ZcYltY1b-UpXymYek9P-fVPO8HotzmQsl-uemmWyJtKuxiZA9O1iC3ckOjtFlhfN0c1kaPMg~~" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://url.emailprotection.link/?bZn_n1FBCmPOos3ZcYltY1b-UpXymYek9P-fVPO8HotzmQsl-uemmWyJtKuxiZA9O1iC3ckOjtFlhfN0c1kaPMg~~</a>><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:05:33 +0000<br>
From: Candace Wilkerson <<a href="mailto:cwilkerson@wongfleming.com" target="_blank">cwilkerson@wongfleming.com</a>><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:a84f695e00004b7eb210dc1de53aa4a9@wongfleming.com" target="_blank">a84f695e00004b7eb210dc1de53aa4a9@wongfleming.com</a>><br>
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I completely agree. There is no way a commissioner/judge will accept a percentage fee, unless it can be supported by documentation of what's been done. In my experience PR fees are very carefully examined by the court, especially if there is an objection to them.<br>
<br>
Candace Wilkerson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> On Behalf Of Kerry Richards<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 2:03 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
Dear Jeff:<br>
I do not believe that Washington supports PR fees based upon percentages of the estate. That is a California idea. PR fees must be established by time spent and records kept. Further, the time spent must be in recognition of the general price to be paid for such services. For example, cleaning out a house would command an unskilled labor rate and banking tasks if they are special may command the charges for a paralegal. Every activity in between would have varying rates depending upon the task. This sounds like it will go to a hearing where the court can sort it out.<br>
Yours truly,<br>
<br>
Kerry A. Richards, Attorney<br>
[cid:image001.png@01D6C892.9DC126B0]<br>
The Law Offices of Michael W. Bugni & Associates, PLLC<br>
11300 Roosevelt Way NE, Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98125<br>
EMAIL: <a href="mailto:krichards@lawgate.net" target="_blank">krichards@lawgate.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:krichards@lawgate.net" target="_blank">krichards@lawgate.net</a>><br>
TEL: 206-365-5500<br>
WEB: <a href="http://www.lawgate.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.lawgate.net</a><<a href="https://url.emailprotection.link/?b_H47N2f3fq3wGk755ipTgVCdOwOHNlAsXh7aC6Mgwk4T0-pJ7lmFqCDUqnssKmeUDUJa9VzIxQk0IsRNXRljUQ~~" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://url.emailprotection.link/?b_H47N2f3fq3wGk755ipTgVCdOwOHNlAsXh7aC6Mgwk4T0-pJ7lmFqCDUqnssKmeUDUJa9VzIxQk0IsRNXRljUQ~~</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 10:24 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
Listmates,<br>
<br>
This is a new one for me in over 38 years of practice. Personal Representative does not keep track of time but claims that she and her husband spent hundreds of hours working on behalf of the estate. Put aside the issue of the husband wanting to be paid for his time from the estate, their attorney is now telling me that the PR can charge, as her fee, 3% of the value of the estate however you figure that out. This probate has been going on for over a year with no inventory or accounting, yet the estate is ready to close. And yes, I had brought a motion to remove the PR months ago, but put if off as PR was moving ahead with liquidating assets. Your thoughts on the "legality" of the fee?<br>
<br>
Jeff Davis<br>
<br>
W. Jeff Davis, Esq.<br>
BELL & DAVIS PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 510<br>
Sequim WA 98382<br>
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129<br>
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258<br>
email: <a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a>><br>
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The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at <a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a>> or call 360.683.1129<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:20:30 +0000<br>
From: Dalynne Singleton <<a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dalynne@glgmail.com</a>><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the<br>
Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:MWHPR12MB15049FF4E8C0017DE57056BCA5F30@MWHPR12MB1504.namprd12.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR12MB15049FF4E8C0017DE57056BCA5F30@MWHPR12MB1504.namprd12.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Attorneys in WA are prohibited from charging percentage of estate as fees. I would think the Judge would apply the same logic to the PR. This would be a horrible result if allowed - what if estate is worth $10 million v. an estate worth $10,000? In the alternative, the PR could get agreement from the heirs as to the fees charged and paid with non-intervention powers but the fees must be "reasonable" for the amount of work done. If the decedent wanted the PR to take a % of the estate as his/her fees, that would have been in the Will if there was one. I have had Judges discount fees when work was done and hours/time tracked based on what the work was - whether it required knowledge and skill or was cleaning out a garage...<br>
<br>
Dalynne Singleton<br>
<br>
Gourley Law Group<br>
Snohomish Escrow<br>
The Exchange Connection<br>
1002 10th Street Box 13<br>
PO Box 1091<br>
Snohomish, WA 98291<br>
<br>
360.568.5065<br>
360.329.4079<br>
360.568.8092 fax<br>
<a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dalynne@glgmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dalynne@glgmail.com</a>><br>
Due to COVID-19, I am working remotely. As a result, I cannot accept any physical messenger service at this time. Please email all pleadings and agreed upon service documents to my email. In-person meetings are not possible at this time. Email is the best way to reach me until further notice. If you would like a telephone or Zoom conference, please email my probate paralegal <a href="mailto:theresa@glgmail.com" target="_blank">theresa@glgmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:theresa@glgmail.com" target="_blank">theresa@glgmail.com</a>> or my personal injury paralegal <a href="mailto:dara@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dara@glgmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:dara@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dara@glgmail.com</a>> to set such conference.<br>
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Thank you very much and stay safe!<br>
LICENSED IN WASHINGTON AND OREGON<br>
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From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> On Behalf Of Candace Wilkerson<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 8:06 AM<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
I completely agree. There is no way a commissioner/judge will accept a percentage fee, unless it can be supported by documentation of what's been done. In my experience PR fees are very carefully examined by the court, especially if there is an objection to them.<br>
<br>
Candace Wilkerson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>> On Behalf Of Kerry Richards<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 2:03 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a>>; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
Dear Jeff:<br>
I do not believe that Washington supports PR fees based upon percentages of the estate. That is a California idea. PR fees must be established by time spent and records kept. Further, the time spent must be in recognition of the general price to be paid for such services. For example, cleaning out a house would command an unskilled labor rate and banking tasks if they are special may command the charges for a paralegal. Every activity in between would have varying rates depending upon the task. This sounds like it will go to a hearing where the court can sort it out.<br>
Yours truly,<br>
<br>
Kerry A. Richards, Attorney<br>
[cid:image006.png@01D6C883.FDB225B0]<br>
The Law Offices of Michael W. Bugni & Associates, PLLC<br>
11300 Roosevelt Way NE, Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98125<br>
EMAIL: <a href="mailto:krichards@lawgate.net" target="_blank">krichards@lawgate.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:krichards@lawgate.net" target="_blank">krichards@lawgate.net</a>><br>
TEL: 206-365-5500<br>
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From: <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 10:24 AM<br>
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Personal Representative Charges a Percent of the Estate as Personal Representative Fee<br>
<br>
Listmates,<br>
<br>
This is a new one for me in over 38 years of practice. Personal Representative does not keep track of time but claims that she and her husband spent hundreds of hours working on behalf of the estate. Put aside the issue of the husband wanting to be paid for his time from the estate, their attorney is now telling me that the PR can charge, as her fee, 3% of the value of the estate however you figure that out. This probate has been going on for over a year with no inventory or accounting, yet the estate is ready to close. And yes, I had brought a motion to remove the PR months ago, but put if off as PR was moving ahead with liquidating assets. Your thoughts on the "legality" of the fee?<br>
<br>
Jeff Davis<br>
<br>
W. Jeff Davis, Esq.<br>
BELL & DAVIS PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 510<br>
Sequim WA 98382<br>
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129<br>
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258<br>
email: <a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@bellanddavispllc.com" target="_blank">info@bellanddavispllc.com</a>><br>
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End of WSBAPT Digest, Vol 75, Issue 4<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>