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<p class="MsoNormal">Wow, I gotta admit, this is scary. Who knew!?!?! Perhaps this is one of those conventions that we, as a matter of custom and practice, can now ignore because it is an unnecessary trap for even the wary. To wit, To wit, and forsooth.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="Paul_A__Neumiller"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img width="250" height="150" style="width:2.6in;height:1.5583in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D4154E.BAA07FA0"></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 6, 2018 5:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Trust Designation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I think this is one of those things where people are confusing convenient abbreviations for terms with legal meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebalance.com%2Fuad-trust-agreement-wills-3505620&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbf810bde33174c3d310908d5e39f5d2d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636665195952308947&sdata=XnXKarhF289MI1o%2BRuIiXQOy6KbbOJpvtd%2BB5ZrghPY%3D&reserved=0">https://www.thebalance.com/uad-trust-agreement-wills-3505620</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">They appear to be handy abbreviations, but using one in the wrong way doesn't magically change the character of a trust. They're just abbreviations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Up until today, I just assumed the abbreviations varied because people abbreviate things in different ways. I did not think there was any intended distinction
between them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1417 31st Ave South<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98144-3909<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent Williams-Ruth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 06, 2018 4:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Trust Designation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">That was my general thought as well - that simply the words "under agreement dated on" have no specific intent behind them to be irrevocable - but this is how it was presented to me by an elder attorney nearly a decade ago who wrote my
Godparents trust, which is, in fact, irrevocable. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Brent<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Eric Nelsen <<a href="mailto:Eric@sayrelawoffices.com" target="_blank">Eric@sayrelawoffices.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I just Googled that, and discovered that I had no idea there were technical distinctions related to
those abbreviations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I might be the only ignorant one out there, but if I'm not, it's possible that someone else is misusing
the abbreviation, so the Trust instrument itself will have to be consulted to determine whether or not it is revocable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eric</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1417 31st Ave South</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98144-3909</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent Williams-Ruth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 06, 2018 4:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Trust Designation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Good Afternoon Hivemind - <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am looking at a trust for a client that has John Doe, Trustee of the John Doe Family Trust, u/a dtd Month, Date, Year of original creation. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It was my understanding that the U/A DTD designation meant it was an irrevocable trust - but this was used for an RLT. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am setting time on Monday to hit the books to dig into this further, but thought I was see if anyone had the answer at their fingertips. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Brent<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
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<p><b>Brent Williams-Ruth</b> <br>
<i>Founding Member</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b>BWR Consulting, PLLC</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Phone:<span style="color:#004080"> </span>(425) 830-5134<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b>Brent Williams-Ruth</b> <br>
<i>Founding Member</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b>BWR Consulting, PLLC</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Phone:<span style="color:#004080"> </span>(425) 830-5134<o:p></o:p></p>
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