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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>And, just for fun, if you are a creditor, including a secured lender, and the creditor dies, you cannot just sue The Estate of (Creditor), unless an estate in probate has been opened. But it happens all the time, especially with deed of trust foreclosures. Some lenders can't figure out how to nonjudicially foreclose against someone who is no longer among us, so they judicially foreclose and name The Estate of, but there is no probate filed. For unsecured debt, if it is worth it, you start a probate as the creditor. If it is real property, you can do that, but you can also get to foreclosure by winding your way through 11.04.250 and get at the heirs directly by suing them or getting releases or agreements. Better to always pre-qualify borrowers and exclude those who are going to die before they pay the loan off. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>And, for more fun, we have in these parts an "investor-developer" who is a true bottom feeder. He often takes title in one of several fictitious corporations. Those deeds are void, unless the corporation is later formed, and then it accedes to title. John Davis v. Cedar Glen, 75 Wash. 2d 214. How quickly it has to incorporate, I don' t know, but the cases suggest, pretty soon. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Ha - the last one I worked on he took title in the name of a fictitious person. He used his address, he was the one who always dealt with it, but he tried to insulate himself by deeding to someone whom we suspected did not exist. Made it easy for us - we tried really hard to find the "person," had to admit defeat, and served by publication. Leading to default and lien foreclosure judgment and sale.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>This was the same guy, who, last time I sued him, came into court and said he was the defendant. Sat on the stand and gave a name I knew was not his. I said, is that really your name? He said it was. So I asked to see his license. He said he forgot it. The judge figured what was up - he said how did you get here? I drove. Then you committed an offense? Should I call downstairs to District Court? He said no, pulled out his wallet, and voila. A different name. <br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Rob<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Robert D. Wilson-Hoss <br>Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP <br>236 West Birch Street <br>Shelton, WA 98584 <br>360 426-2999<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><a href="www.hossandwilsonhoss.com">www.hossandwilson-hoss.com</a><br><a href="mailto:rob@hctc.com">rob@hctc.com</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments. Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;text-transform:uppercase'>This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. § 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lenard<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 25, 2018 9:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Listserve Q<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Part of your argument is that fictitious legal entities do not exist unless the government says they exist. For example, there is a corporation act that says corporations are separate legal entities, an LLC act that says likewise and business trust/Massachusetts trust act as well. So a business trust is the only trust that is a separate legal entity. Otherwise why would we need RCW 23.90?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many attorneys make the mistake of assuming trusts and estates are separate legal entities. Not according to trust and estate law. The IRS website even says that when a person dies their estate becomes a separate legal entity. Not so. It becomes a taxpayer and a trust may be a taxpayer, too. That does not create a separate legal entity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have seen trust documents that state that the trust has a name and can hold title to property in the trust name. Not good policy, at least not until we change trust law. If all we need to create a separate legal entity is write a document that says so, why do we need a corporation act, an LLC act, etc? Trust law has always been about relationships, not legal entities.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Lenard L. Wittlake, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Attorney & Counselor at Law<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>22 E. Poplar Street, Suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>P.O. Box 1233<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Walla Walla, WA 99362<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(509) 529-1529 voice<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(509) 850-3515 fax<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:lenard@wittlakelaw.com">lenard@wittlakelaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.lwattorney.com/">www.lwattorney.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rod Harmon<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 22, 2018 11:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Listserve Q<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rich:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That was so well said I am going to include it in a footnote to a motion for reconsideration I am filing in the court of appeals. Haven’t figured out what to cite as authority, though.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rod Harmon</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>RODNEY T. HARMON</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Attorney at Law</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> P.O. Box 1066</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Bothell, WA 98041</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Tel: (425) 402-7800</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Fax: (425) 458-9096</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <a href="http://www.rodharmon.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.rodharmon.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <a href="mailto:rodharmon@msn.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>rodharmon@msn.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:6.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rich McEntee<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Listserve Q<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Rod<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It is not really a title company issue as much as a legal issue that title companies often catch. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The creation of a trust involves the separation of rights to the trust property — the title to trust property is split between the trustee and the beneficiaries. The trustee holds legal title to the property and the beneficiaries hold equitable title. As the trustee holds legal title to the property, the property is held in the trustee's name. The trust is not a legal entity that can hold properly. It is simply a name/term that denotes the relationship between the grantor and the trustee. Thus, when it is said that property is being transferred to a trust, what is really meant is that property is being transferred to a trustee to be held “<i>in trust</i>” for the benefit of someone else. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rich<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div id=AppleMailSignature><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Rich McEntee</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>McEntee Law Office</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>3800 Bridgeport Way W Ste A411</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>University Place, WA 98466</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="tel:253.227.9894">253.227.9894</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:jrmcentee@gmail.com"><span style='color:black'>jrmcentee@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message, and any attachments accompanying it,may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message. If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span>Sent from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 21, 2018, at 9:10 PM, John J. Sullivan <<a href="mailto:sullaw@comcast.net">sullaw@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>