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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob, thanks for sending us the research! I haven't done any supplemental research but I think the term "virtual representation" gets used in two contexts--one
is the collateral estoppel situation described in <u>Garcia</u> (thanks for that cite), and the other is the descent-and-distribution situation for inheritances, where a parent "virtually represents" their own children's interests or a trustee "virtually represents"
all the beneficiaries of that trust.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have understood the second type to mean that individuals whose rights in the immediate probate
<u>derive from</u> someone else who <u>directly</u> benefits from the probate, are virtually represented by the person who directly benefits. Assuming that person who directly benefits has no conflict of interest with them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In Krista's case, she mentions that the money for minors is to go to a trust until they're 21. If there is a Trustee for that trust, then the Trustee is the
direct "legatee" of the Will, not the kids. If the Trustee doesn't have a conflict of interest where their pecuniary interest in the estate could be benefitted at the expense of the Trust beneficiaries (kids), then the Trustee can bind the trust for the kids,
the kids are virtually represented, and I don't think a GAL is required. <a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.96A.120">
RCW 11.96A.120(4)(d)</a>. See also last sentence of <a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.96A&full=true#11.96A.220">
RCW 11.96A.220</a>, and the special representative provisions of <a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.96A&full=true#11.96A.250">
RCW 11.96A.250</a>. Compare to settlement of claims of minors with an SGAL under <a href="http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.list&group=sup&set=SPR">
SPR 98.08W and SPR 98.16W</a>. All these additional safeguards--GALs and SGALs and special representatives--appear to be for the circumstance where the minor has a direct claim that is being compromised, settled, or otherwise potentially impaired, and there
is no one else who can represent the minor's interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I'm assuming that the new arrangement will still actually
<u>fund</u> the trust for the kids--that is, that however this probate is wrapped up, the kids will get the same amount of money and it will be held under the trust terms until they each turn 21. If the new arrangement alters that, it's a trickier question
about whether the kids are virtually represented, and the potential conflicts of interest between the kids and the trustee need to be carefully analyzed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Wilson-Hoss<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 01, 2018 10:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'; 'John J. Sullivan'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] GAL needed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Actually, that's a great question - what exactly does virtual representation mean? TEDRA uses it as if it were a well-understood concept, and it does give specific examples, but then it ends with,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.0pt"><br>
<span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black;background:white">(12) This section is intended to adopt the common law concept of virtual representation. This section supplements the common law relating to the doctrine of virtual representation and may not be construed
as limiting the application of that common law doctrine.</span><span style="font-size:13.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black">Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 11.96A.120 (West)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">OK, so enter virtual /1 representation into your legal research search engine and see what you come up with in Washington. A good answer to the question is,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black">5 <i>Hackler</i> and <i>Bacon</i> illustrate that Washington recognizes what has been termed the <span style="background:white">virtual</span> <span style="background:white">representation</span> doctrine.<sup>12</sup> This
doctrine allows collateral estoppel to be used against a nonparty when the former adjudication involved a party with substantial identity of interests with the nonparty. Of course, such preclusion must be applied cautiously in order to insure **967 that the
nonparty is not unjustly deprived of her day in court. Therefore, cases which have utilized the doctrine *521 have developed a number of factors which, in essence, insure that the nonparty has had a vicarious day in court.<sup>13</sup><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black">6
</span><b><u><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:red">The primary factor to be considered is whether the nonparty in some way participated in the former adjudication</span></u></b><b><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:red">, for instance as a witness.<sup>14</sup> The
issue must have been fully and fairly litigated at the former adjudication.<sup>15</sup> That the evidence and testimony will be identical to that presented in the former adjudication is another important factor.<sup>16</sup> <u>Finally, there must be some
sense that the separation of the suits was the product of some manipulation or tactical maneuvering</u>, such as when the nonparty knowingly declined the opportunity to intervene but presents no valid reason for doing so.<sup>17</sup><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><u><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black">Garcia v. Wilson</span></u><span style="font-size:13.0pt;color:black">, 63 Wash. App. 516, 520–21, 820 P.2d 964, 966–67 (1991)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Then read .120 again. If you graft the doctrine's factors onto the text of .120, well, let's just say that "clarity" is not a word I would use. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Rob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
<br>
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP <br>
236 West Birch Street <br>
Shelton, WA 98584 <br>
360 426-2999<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><a href="www.hossandwilsonhoss.com">www.hossandwilson-hoss.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:rob@hctc.com">rob@hctc.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Krista MacLaren<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 01, 2018 9:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John J. Sullivan; wsba probate & trust<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] GAL needed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your response on this. What do you mean by virtually represented? The kids who are receiving something also have a parent receiving something. The kids’ shares are supposed to go into a trust until they are 21. They are
not receiving a specific gift, it is part of the residue, which is divided into numerous shares. We are not changing the distribution percentages at all, but doing as the trust says. The only reason I was going to prepare a TEDRA was because of the mandatory
sub trusts that were never funded. I wonder if I am making it too complicated, and the trustees could just distribute all the assets as specified for termination/distribution and be done? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I appreciate any further comments because I do not have much experience with trusts.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you so much!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Krista <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 26, 2018, at 6:32 PM, John J. Sullivan <<a href="mailto:sullaw@comcast.net">sullaw@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Krista:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Are the kids virtually represented?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Or ... are these specific bequests that they will receive? I have often taken the position that someone whose beneficial interest cannot be affected need not be a party to the TEDRA. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Maybe make the small specific bequests and then do the TEDRA? How will the minors receive their bequests?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John J. Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Feb 26, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Krista MacLaren <<a href="mailto:kjm.inc@mac.com">kjm.inc@mac.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Listmates, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am representing some step siblings/successor Trustees in wrapping up their respective parents’ trust. The trust provided for a mandatory credit shelter trust. The couple did not have enough money to need to utilize a credit shelter
trust, and the second spouse died soon after the first. Now, the successor trustees are marshaling the assets and plan to make distributions that will wrap up the trust. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I was thinking that because they are not technically following the trust instructions, in that the credit shelter trust was never funded, and distributions are being made out of different pots than what the testators envisioned, that I
would draft a TEDRA just to recite what they are doing and why they are doing it, and have all beneficiaries sign that agreement. However, a few thousand dollars is supposed to go to two or three kids who are 14-17 y.o. Does that mean that a GAL would need
to be brought in, because they cannot sign a TEDRA on their own behalf? Could all of the other beneficiaries sign a TEDRA without the kids participating, and the trustees just hold the share of the kids until they are of age? If a GAL was needed, how does
that happen in the context of a trust (as opposed to a probate)?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks you!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Krista<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Krista J. MacLaren<br>
Attorney at Law<br>
Northgate Executive Center II<br>
9725 3rd Ave NE, Suite 600<br>
Seattle WA 98115<br>
(206) 523-6116<br>
<a href="mailto:kjm.inc@icloud.com">kjm.inc@icloud.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Please note, as with most email providers, Mac does not encrypt email messages. Accordingly, the confidentiality of messages sent to this address cannot be assured. This e-mail is intended for viewing only by
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