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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all for the sage advice. I assumed because it was earned during the marriage, it was community property. Not sure how I missed the statute - but it is in a strange place, out of context but glad it is there.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am planning to fund the credit trust with the nonparticipating spouse’s community interest in the IRA. That is the substantial and primary asset of the participant’s assets. There will have to be a name change for that half with TIAA.
If I did a TEDRA, I assume that TIAA would have to sign as well? Thoughts appreciated, especially if anyone has been down this road.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:22.0pt;font-family:"Bickley Script"">Ralph Maimon<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">LAW OFFICE OF RALPH MAIMON, P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">2811 E. Madison Street, Suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Seattle, WA 98112</span><span style="font-family:"Freestyle Script""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(206) 323-0911 Office<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(206) 462 1505 Fax<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:rmaimon@maimonlaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">rmaimon@maimonlaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">www.maimonlaw.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John J. Sullivan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 6:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] One spouse's IRA as community property?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jared:<span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It’s been almost 20 years since I researched this, but my recollection is yes, the residuary clause applies. I’ll see if I can find it tomorrow. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The problem is I’ve never known an IRA custodian who will go along with it. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 25, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Jared E. Adams <<a href="mailto:jared@condieadams.com">jared@condieadams.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks for responding and including the reference to RCW 6.15.020(6)! I’m interested in your additional thoughts and the thoughts of other on this issue.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The RCW you cited provides “the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse may transfer or distribute the community property interest of the nonparticipant, nonaccount
holder spouse in the participant or account holder spouse's employee benefit plan</span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse's estate, testamentary trust, inter vivos trust, or other successor or successors pursuant to the last will of the nonparticipant,
nonaccount holder spouse.” </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I find the language that the spouse
<u>may transfer or distribute</u> his or her CP interest somewhat ambiguous. If the deceased spouse’s Will states he or she specifically gives his or her CP interest in the IRA to someone, I think the gift is clearly valid and enforceable under the statute.
But, if the spouse simply gives his or her residuary estate to a trust (or someone else), does that really control the disposition of half the surviving spouse’s IRA?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In other words, I agree the nonparticipant spouse has the right to give half the IRA, but I don’t know that a residuary clause in the Will exercises that right.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Does anyone know of any cases on point? I’m happy to be wrong, and I’d love to learn from others’ experiences on this.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jared</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Jared E. Adams, JD, LL.M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Condie & Adams, PLLC<br>
611 4th Avenue, Suite A<br>
Kirkland, WA 98033<br>
(voice): (425) 450-1040 <br>
(fax): (425) 450-1041</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John J. Sullivan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] One spouse's IRA as community property?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ralph:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve dealt with this situation numerous times. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Assuming the IRA is CP, the non-participant’s will disposes of her interest. See RCW 6.15.020(6). Odd placement. Odd provision. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Usually it’s highly undesirable to force distribution of the IRA. What I usually do is have the survivor issue a promissory note to the CST if it’s important to find it. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John Sullivan <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 25, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Jared E. Adams <<a href="mailto:jared@condieadams.com">jared@condieadams.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:windowtext"><image001.jpg>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I agree one-half of the IRA would be included in her “gross estate” for estate tax purposes. But, would one-half of the IRA be included in her probate estate,
and subject to disposition under her Will? Characterizing the asset as community property doesn’t necessarily make it subject to probate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jared</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Jared E. Adams, JD, LL.M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Condie & Adams, PLLC<br>
611 4th Avenue, Suite A<br>
Kirkland, WA 98033<br>
(voice): (425) 450-1040 <br>
(fax): (425) 450-1041</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">(email):
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Creahan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] One spouse's IRA as community property?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Hi Ralph,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">The IRA funds are presumed to be community property, assuming the were earned during marriage, and one half would be includible in her estate. Titling in one spouse’s name
is irrelevant to determining whether the account is community. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Are you thinking about possibly funding the credit trust with the IRA assets?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Hope this helps,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959">John Creahan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cairn-2Dlaw.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=48uCzqbn0A0fuu0Vx7HiXuyvQSYkBeVAtLY41jGTlHo&m=wQC-g3MkizNjsYHXghLWQup3j4SFvg57qSE9SJ-ILDo&s=QTNY6S2_0-KSNN4era3oeVm7HNJebGZYyJ17054EDqE&e="><span style="color:#595959">www.cairn-law.com</span></a><br>
</span><b><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:red">Now located in the heart of Fremont<br>
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959">3417 Evanston Ave. N, Suite 312<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ralph Maimon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] One spouse's IRA as community property?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Folks <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My client’s wife died. We are probating her will. There is a credit trust. The great bulk of the estate is in the husband’s IRA with TIAA. Any thoughts as to whether the TIAA account would be considered community property, whereby half
of its value can be considered part of her estate? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:22.0pt;font-family:"Bickley Script"">Ralph Maimon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">LAW OFFICE OF RALPH MAIMON, P.S.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">2811 E. Madison Street, Suite 202</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Seattle, WA 98112</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(206) 323-0911 Office</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(206) 462 1505 Fax</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:rmaimon@maimonlaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">rmaimon@maimonlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.maimonlaw.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=48uCzqbn0A0fuu0Vx7HiXuyvQSYkBeVAtLY41jGTlHo&m=wQC-g3MkizNjsYHXghLWQup3j4SFvg57qSE9SJ-ILDo&s=sTl0l9zYGoWT1FfSCBCxmrNwpVkIbpjhE2uqu2nWg2s&e=">www.maimonlaw.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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