<div dir="ltr">Thank you John--and others--for your helpful reply. You've given me some good ideas.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Best,</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">David J. Faber</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Faber Feinson PLLC</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">210 Polk Street, Suite 1</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Port Townsend, WA 98368<br>(360) 379-4110</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL. This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and destroy the copy you received.***</span></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:06 AM, John Creahan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john@cairn-law.com" target="_blank">john@cairn-law.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">Hi David,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">Although it is possible to draft an IRA trust that allows the trustee to retain required minimum distributions while still qualifying as a designated beneficiary, conduit trusts –
which require the trustee to distribute <span>RMD</span> – are much simpler and less likely to create income tax or designated-beneficiary issues.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">In this case, your clients are telling you that they don’t want their grandchildren to receive a large inheritance prior to age 30. If the grandparents left a $1 million IRA to a conduit
trust for their grandchildren’s benefit, when the oldest was 25, the trustee would be required to distribute the entire
<span>RMD</span> among the trust beneficiaries – but the <span>
RMD</span> in this case would be about $17,000. And, it appears this would only occur if grandchildren’s father had already passed, so the grandkids might actually need the money.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">If the grandparents were my clients, I would strongly recommend the conduit trust, even though the grandkids would receive minor distributions before age 30, and I would try to help
them understand that, in the unlikely event the grandchildren inherit the IRA, a potential early withdrawal from the inherited IRA creates a more substantial financial risk than relatively small distributions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">Hope this helps,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="color:#595959">John<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#595959"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959">John Creahan</span><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#595959"><a href="tel:206-621-5848" value="+12066215848" target="_blank">206-621-5848</a><br>
<a href="http://www.cairn-law.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#595959">www.cairn-law.com</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;color:#4f6228"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#595959"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#595959"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.<wbr>com</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.<wbr>wsbarppt.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Faber<span class=""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:17 AM<br>
</span><span class=""><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
</span></span></p><div><div class="h5"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] IRA to Beneficiaries of a Descendant's Trust (Beneficiary Language for Plan Administrator)<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
Jared,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
UTMA is a reasonable option. The problem we face, however, is that the client is keen on 30 being the age that the grandkids receive the IRA free of trust. The difference between 25 and 30 can be night and day... Now I am wrestling with the language trying
to make sure that we navigate the income tax issues but having significant trouble wrapping my head around all of the details in the rules.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">David J. Faber<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Faber Feinson PLLC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">210 Polk Street, Suite 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Port Townsend, WA 98368<br>
<a href="tel:%28360%29%20379-4110" value="+13603794110" target="_blank">(360) 379-4110</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL. This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient,
or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and destroy the copy
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
<u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;line-height:13.0pt">
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Jared E. Adams <<a href="mailto:jared@condieadams.com" target="_blank">jared@condieadams.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Why not consider naming the grandchildren as the contingent beneficiaries, but designating a custodian
under the Uniform Transfers to Minors Act? Under RCW 11.114.200, you can elect to extend the custodianship until a beneficiary is 25. It’s not customizable like a trust, but you avoid the income tax problems associated with putting retirement accounts into
trust.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jared</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Jared E. Adams, JD, LL.M.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Condie & Adams, PLLC<br>
611 4th Avenue, Suite A<br>
Kirkland, WA 98033<br>
(voice): <a href="tel:%28425%29%20450-1040" target="_blank">(425) 450-1040</a> <br>
(fax): <a href="tel:%28425%29%20450-1041" target="_blank">(425) 450-1041</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">(email):
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:jared@condieadams.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">jared@condieadams.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">(web):
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.condieadams.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.condieadams.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy">Unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this communication, including attachments
and enclosures, is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed
herein.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE DISCLAIMER</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">
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<p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.<wbr>com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.<wbr>wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek Jensen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 23, 2016 1:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] IRA to Beneficiaries of a Descendant's Trust (Beneficiary Language for Plan Administrator)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_3555328000351497181_m_-3385348385063859951__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">David,</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Natalie Choate has a whole host of beneficiary designation forms (one of which may meet your needs) and related discussions
in her book. You can know subscribe to a digital version of her book, “Life and Death Planning for Retirement Benefits” for $9/ month on a month to month basis from her web site
</span><a href="https://www.ataxplan.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://www.ataxplan.com/</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Also, since so many income bad tax results can happen with a distribution plan like you have described, be aware
of the accumulation trust issues for naming the trust as a designated beneficiary. It would be terrible to get stuck with a 5 year distribution requirement and a tax rate of 39.6% on everything over $12,000 or so a year.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#984806">Sincerely,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#984806">Derek W. Jensen,
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#984806">JD, LLM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:maroon">Jensen Law Office, PLLC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:maroon">1833 N 105<sup>th</sup> St., Suite 301</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:maroon">Seattle, WA 98133</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.<wbr>com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.<wbr>wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Faber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 23, 2016 12:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] IRA to Beneficiaries of a Descendant's Trust (Beneficiary Language for Plan Administrator)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">WSBAPT List:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am working with an unmarried client who just lost one or their two children, which has left them dwelling on the "what ifs" of losing their other child. The bulk of the client's
assets are held in IRA and they are still working. The client has named their surviving child as the first contingent beneficiary of the IRA and wants their grandchildren to be the beneficiaries if their surviving child predeceases. The complicating factor
is that the client does not want the grandkids (who are all quite young--not even school-age yet) receiving a large supply of money before they can learn the value of money and instead only wants the kids to receive the money upon reaching the age of thirty.
I believe I have amended the client's trust with sufficient language to allow the Trustee to administer the IRA, but I want to make sure I'm providing proper language to the plan administrator. Does anyone have example language that they provide the client
to send to their plan administrator for this purpose that they would be willing to share?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">David J. Faber</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Faber Feinson PLLC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">210 Polk Street, Suite 1</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Port Townsend, WA 98368<br>
<a href="tel:%28360%29%20379-4110" target="_blank">(360) 379-4110</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL. This communication may contain privileged or other confidential
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