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<DIV>Obviously family history will have a lot to do with it.</DIV>
<DIV>But to just put things into perspective, attached is a recent article from the Seattle Times with the statistics of ending up in a nursing home.</DIV>
<DIV>This is just part of the items to consider in making such decisions. </DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>Jackie Cyphers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>Jeannette A. Cyphers, Attorney at Law</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>P. O. Box 908 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>Edmonds, WA 98020-0908</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>425-776-5887</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Arial>fax 425-640-0814</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A title=mailto:jacyphers@gmail.com href="mailto:jacyphers@gmail.com"><FONT size=3 face=Arial>jacyphers@gmail.com</FONT></A></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href="mailto:mfry@lyon-law.com">Marcus Fry</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>Date:</B></I> 11/17/2015 12:00:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" dir=ltr><I><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: [WSBAPT] Trusts to Protect Assets from Medicaid</DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Jim:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>The complexity of the situation involves defective grantor trusts, possible 3<SUP>rd</SUP> party SNT planning regarding the inheritance as well as balancing the benefits of Medicaid vs. private pay factoring in eligibility for LTC policies, etc. I suggest you refer your clients or confer with attorney Jacob Menashe <A href="http://www.hickmanmenashe.com/">http://www.hickmanmenashe.com/</A> over on your side of the mountains. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Marcus Fry<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Lyon, Weigand & Gustafson PS<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Yakima, WA.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John Creahan<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:41 AM<BR><B>To:</B> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WSBAPT] Trusts to Protect Assets from Medicaid<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Hi Jim,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Just to be clear, I do not do any Medicaid planning, so cannot offer any insight into your clients’ Medicaid options.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Having said that, I view your clients’ situation differently. Your clients’ assets will not be exposed to Medicaid’s spend down provisions unless they choose to use Medicaid. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">My question is: why would they want to use Medicaid? I am confident that, given their druthers, your clients would rather spend their golden years in a (pricey) private pay facility than in a lower-cost (to them anyway) Medicaid-eligible facility. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Again, I don’t know what you mean when you say they have “substantial wealth.” Still, if they are like my clients in their early 70s, they have a lot of living to do. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Do they really want to give away their assets, to impoverish themselves, for the next 20 years, just to make sure that they can’t afford a private pay facility?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">If they haven’t already talked to a financial planner, I would recommend they do so. A planner could help quantify the risks for them and help them better understand their future financial needs.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Hope this helps,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">John <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'>John Creahan</SPAN><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'>206-621-5848<BR></SPAN><A href="http://www.cairn-law.com/"><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'>www.cairn-law.com</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #4f6228'><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'> <A href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</A> [<A href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jim Doran<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:01 AM<BR><B>To:</B> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<A href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WSBAPT] Trusts to Protect Assets from Medicaid<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">John:</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">What they are concerned about is that if one of them does have to go into the longterm care and potentially hospitalization, and their relatively low insurance does not cover all the expenses, they will have to expose their assets to the spend-down provisions or not qualify at all for Medicaid. </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Am I missing something here?</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Jim</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly">James R. Doran<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly">Attorney at Law<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly">100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly">Bellingham, WA 98225<BR>(360)393-9506<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><A href="mailto:jim@doranlegal.com" target=_blank>jim@doranlegal.com</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"><A href="http://www.doranlegal.com" target=_blank>www.doranlegal.com</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly">On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:50 AM, John Creahan <<A href="mailto:john@cairn-law.com" target=_blank>john@cairn-law.com</A>> wrote:<O:P></O:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Jim,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Before you start implementing your clients’ plan, I suggest you have a long conversation with them about what they really want. We all have different interpretations about the meaning of “significant assets,” but given your brief description, it seems very unlikely that they would ever <B>need</B> Medicaid. </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Even if they succeeded in giving all their assets away, what would they gain? If they needed long-term care, which they might not, the government would provide some financial support that would allow them to live in a very basic facility.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">If they compared private pay facilities to their Medicaid counterparts, they might reconsider their choices. If they are worried about spending down all their wealth on long-term care, they might want to look into purchasing long-term care insurance. </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">Hope this helps,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959">John</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="COLOR: #595959"> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'>John Creahan</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><A href="tel:206-621-5848" target=_blank><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"'>206-621-5848</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'><BR></SPAN><A href="http://www.cairn-law.com/" target=_blank><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Tw Cen MT","sans-serif"; COLOR: #595959'>www.cairn-law.com</SPAN></A><O:P></O:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'> </SPAN><A href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target=_blank><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'> [mailto:</SPAN><A href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target=_blank><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jim Doran<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:22 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Real Property Section <</SPAN><A href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target=_blank><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"'>><BR><B>Subject:</B> [WSBAPT] Trusts to Protect Assets from Medicaid</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Hello Listmates:</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I know this is a common question and I also know that there is tension in the law regarding how and even "if" this can be done. I have a client that is asking the question in a pretty straightforward manner. I think this issue goes to the lack of progress in our society concerning health care and dying.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">H & W, both in their early 70s, want to put their significant assets, two pieces of real estate and probably a third very valuable one that they will receive as an inheritance from mother, into a trust to protect them from the Medicaid asset requirements for eligibility and from the spend-down and recoupment provisions of medicaid. I would imagine the protection from creditors in general is also part of the concept.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">The concept is to put the assets into an irrevocable trust that gives them a life estate in the property they choose to live in. The trust would direct that the remainder at the death of the second trustor would go to the children in a typical scheme. H & W would keep some assets, such as investment funds and some cash and regular monthly income, out of the trust to live on. Those assets would not be protected.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">One question for them is, who will be the Trustee? This is an irrevocable trust so you better choose wisely.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">For me, the question is whether this can be done at all and how it can be done. I am aware of the five year look-back provisions so we want to do this asap.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I do have access to the desk books and other library sources. If someone can point me in the right direction, give me the right name for this kind of trust, or send me a model, it would be appreciated.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-line-height-alt: 13.0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Jim Doran</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto">100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto">Bellingham, WA 98225<BR><A href="tel:%28360%29393-9506" target=_blank>(360)393-9506</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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