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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Hi Eric,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">I may be missing something, but I don’t understand why you suggest using a firm’s
<span class="SpellE">IOLTA</span> account for this purpose. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Couldn’t a claiming successor endorse the checks over to her own account (or someone else’s)? Do you think that a bank would be more
likely to accept a check such as this into an <span class="SpellE">IOLTA</span> account as opposed to a consumer account?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#595959;mso-no-proof:yes">John Creahan</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#595959;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<a href="http://www.cairn-law.com/"><span style="color:#595959">www.cairn-law.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tw Cen MT",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#4F6228;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#595959;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">From:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] check for estate - RE: EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">One addendum to my thread below--one possibility for liability for the law firm that uses its IOLTA thus, is the possibility there's a creditor out there who hasn't been paid. So perhaps as an addendum to the
procedure I dreamed up below, the firm could have all the heirs sign a small estate affidavit directed
<u>to the firm</u>, that includes the critical averment under RCW 11.62.010(2)(f) "That all debts of the decedent including funeral and burial expenses have been paid or provided for."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Arguably, that might protect the firm from liability to creditors, per
<a href="http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=11.62&full=true#11.62.020">RCW 11.62.020</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span class="SpellE">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a> [<span class="SpellE"><a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a></span>]
<b>On Behalf <span class="GramE">Of</span> </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 3:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] check for estate - RE: EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Krista--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sending you a thread below from earlier this year, with my thoughts about this common situation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Eric Nelsen
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 11, 2015 12:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">No, no offline responses that had an opinion about my "dodge." Regarding the ethics implication--my thought is, with all heirs in agreement and appointing the client as agent for purposes of endorsing the checks,
the law office would represent the client in client's fiduciary/agent capacity, just as it would represent a formally-appointed PR. The client has voluntarily taken on fiduciary duties to the other heirs, and needs the lawyer's assistance to meet them. The
client doesn't own the funds, but as agent is entitled to possession/control. Deposit to IOLTA accomplishes that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">What makes me instinctively uneasy is whether the
<u>issuer</u> of each check has a cause of action against the client: But even there I don't think it's a problem. Once the check leaves the issuer's hands, I don't think the issuer has much say in how it's handled. And because the money will go to the only
people who were entitled to the money, there won't be anyone who could sue the issuer for lack of payment. No harm to the issuer, so no foul.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The risk for the law firm I think is that it arguably has true, full fiduciary duties to the heirs, and if the money goes astray when distributed from the IOLTA account, the firm could be liable under some circumstances--failure
to make ascertain proper heirs, failure to make sure the money is delivered into the right hands, etc., etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Neumiller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2015 10:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Eric, I have been watching the listserv to see if you got any responses but haven’t seen any online. Did you get any responses off-line? It seems like you have set up a good plan under these circumstances though
I’d be interested in what the WSBA ethics people would have to say about use of the attorney’s IOTA account for holding funds that, technically, don’t belong to the client.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I have thought of the following dodge for checks payable to the Estate where the Estate isn't opened, but haven't tried it out yet so I'll offer it up to see what people think:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">1. Do your due diligence to ascertain who the proper successors to the Estate are, and ensure that all the small affidavit requirements (including concerning debts) have been met.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">2. Have the successors all agree that they authorize one of them to act as their agent for purposes of endorsing the checks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">3. Have agent endorse the checks over to firm IOLTA account. S/he isn't technically authorized, but if all the successors have agreed, who is going to be harmed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">4. Handle the funds as estate funds and disburse in accordance with the law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I know it's generally not best practice to handle estate funds through the IOLTA account rather than requiring the Estate to open a separate bank account--but the point of this exercise is to avoid that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Seems to me, if the firm is willing to act essentially as a true fiduciary for the funds, and all successors agree to allow this procedure, there is low risk and high benefit to the successors in terms of efficiency.
The agreement of all successors essentially serves as a waiver of any need to get a PR officially appointed, since all interested parties are protected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The chief risk is, I think, endorsement of a check by a non-payee. But if all legitimate successors of the non-payee are in agreement, I can't imagine that the check issuer is going to object.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart Ainsley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2015 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Unfortunately, we have three checks to cash that are made payable to the estate of the decedent so BOA is insisting that it won’t cash them unless we set up a bank account for the “estate”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><img border="0" width="360" height="144" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D10B54.D49B9720" alt="Description: Description: Logo_2009_email"></span><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Stuart M. Ainsley<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Attorney</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Law Offices of Stuart M. Ainsley, P.S.<sup>1</sup></span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">2701 Mingus Drive</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cedar Park, TX 78613<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">512-638-0285 (Texas phone number)</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">206-780-9024 (Washington phone number)</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">512-366-5216 (fax)<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0"><a href="mailto:stuart@ainsleylaw.com">mailto:stuart@ainsleylaw.com</a></span></u><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><sup><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">1</span></sup><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Licensed to practice Law in Texas and Washington<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><b><span style="color:navy">CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"><br>
</span><span style="color:navy">This e-mail message is confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the person responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby advised
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete and/or destroy the original and all copies of the e-mail message.</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Douglas Bratt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2015 3:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The irony, of course, is that the Small Estate Affidavit procedure is designed to allow custodians to hand over funds held in accounts of decedents without putting itself in jeopardy as to possible liability
claims for unlawfully having released the funds, so long as the Claiming Successor “crosses the T’s and dots the I’s” in making application for the funds.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I agree with Eric that the statute does not require “the Estate” to be involved, since the whole purpose behind the statute is to set up a procedure whereby NO Estate ever has to be created. So, how can there
be an EIN requirement if there is no Estate?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I agree – it has all of the feel of a BOA situation. It seems like each employee is required to partake of “Do it By the BOA Book Pills,” apparently, ingesting them at least hourly, even if “the Book” and the
Bank’s rigid rules do not comply with the law. And, don’t forget, everything has to be passed through the Legal Department, and they still don’t always follow the law, IMHO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Doug Bratt <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:#1F497D">Douglas J. Bratt</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:#1F497D">Lawyer</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="220" height="224" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D10B54.D49B9720" alt="Envelope scaled Foster"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Office: (360) 213-2040
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> Fax: (360) 213-2030<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2015 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate [text]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I'm guessing that's Bank of America, grrrr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In any case, the small affidavit process under Ch. 11.62 RCW is supposed to avoid all the probate issues. The custodian of the funds is entitled to hand it over directly to the successor, not to "the Estate."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart Ainsley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">List mates:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am trying to take care of a very small estate. It has a CD for less than $12,000 and three checks made payable to the estate of $1,700. That’s it. I was going to use a small estate affidavit but the bank
is insisting that we set up an estate bank account and provide Letters Testamentary and an EIN for the estate. I think I can convince them that we don’t need the letters but I’m concerned about the EIN. I have applied for EIN’s for estates before but the
online program always ask for the County and State where the probate has been filed and the name of the Personal Representative. Has anyone successfully obtained an EIN for an estate without filing a probate? I hate to file a probate just to satisfy some
bank manager’s checklist of documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks in advance for your responses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><img border="0" width="360" height="144" id="ecxPicture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D10B54.D49B9720" alt="Description: Description: Logo_2009_email"></span><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Stuart M. Ainsley<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Attorney</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Law Offices of Stuart M. Ainsley, P.S.<sup>1</sup></span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">2701 Mingus Drive</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cedar Park, TX 78613<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">512-638-0285 (Texas phone number)</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">206-780-9024 (Washington phone number)</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">512-366-5216 (fax)<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0"><a href="mailto:stuart@ainsleylaw.com">mailto:stuart@ainsleylaw.com</a></span></u><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><sup><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">1</span></sup><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Licensed to practice Law in Texas and Washington<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><b><span style="color:navy">CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>CHRISTOPHER CONSTANTINE<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 10:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Amending a Will While Under Guardianship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Estate of Alsup</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">, 181 Wash.App. 856 has facts that may be very
close to your case. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Chris Constantine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Of Counsel, Inc., P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">P. O. Box 7125<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Tacoma, WA 98417-0125<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(253) 752-7850<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jami Pannell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 5:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Estate Planning Discussion Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Amending a Will While Under Guardianship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Colleagues:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">[This question is posed by my practice partner.] We consulted with a potential client who initially had a guardianship established over him while he convalesced from a head injury. He eventually recovered from his injuries and went back
to living life almost as independently as before his injury. He had the court appointed guardian removed and wanted to keep his guardianship for major financial decisions, so he had his stepdaughter appointed. Now he is interested in updating a will he made
prior to the initial guardianship, as well as executing a transfer on death deed. The resulting changes would be consistent with his original estate plan and our opinion is that he has the capacity to make these changes and understands them fully. I believe
this would be in compliance with RPC 1.14.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The order appointing the original guardian specifically revoked his right to make or amend a will, and the new order appointing his stepdaughter is silent on the issue. His stepdaughter is also his heir, which may complicate matters.
Can anyone point to legal support for us drafting a valid codicil and deed in spite of what the original guardianship order states? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any feedback is appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#002060">Jami L. Pannell<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:gray">Attorney & Counselor at Law<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:gray"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
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