<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 3 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Californian FB";
panose-1:2 7 4 3 6 8 11 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style>
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Jenna,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">Good question. In my earlier response I assumed the children were adults. If the children are still minors, and the parents’ plan calls for a testamentary trust to be funded
if both pass away, the parents would typically name that trust as their retirement account alternate beneficiary.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">However, if the IRA assets will be needed for the beneficiaries’ living expenses or if the retirement accounts were relatively small, I would not necessarily recommend including
provisions that would allow the trust to be treated as a designated beneficiary – that is, as a conduit or accumulation trust.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">I don’t see the benefit of complicating the trust to allow a stretch that will probably not be utilized in any case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">John Creahan<br>
Cairn Law, PLLC<br>
<a href="tel:206-621-5848" target="_blank">206-621-5848</a><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Californian FB",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jenna Brozik<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 11, 2015 11:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] IRA trusts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If their children are age 3 and age 5, do you still recommend naming their children as the account's alternate beneficiary rather than the trust?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks everyone for all your comments. They were very helpful.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jenna Brozik</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Attorney at Law</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Prinz & Brozik PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">445 S Grand Ave<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pullman, WA 99163<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(509)338-0908 / (509) 338-3527 (fax)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jennaprinzlaw@gmail.com" target="_blank">jennaprinzlaw@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:10 AM, John Creahan <<a href="mailto:john@cairn-law.com" target="_blank">john@cairn-law.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is no clear line between situations where you need a separate trust and those where you don't. More often than not, I include conduit trust language in the testamentary
trust rather than a stand-alone. <br>
I would probably use a stand-alone where the trusts' beneficiaries were not identical, for instance, or in cases in which the clients wanted dramatically different distribution schemes for their IRAs than for other assets.<br>
This assumes a trust is beneficial. Depending on ages and account size, I often recommend that clients name their children as the account's alternate beneficiary rather than a trust.<br>
Hope this helps,<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
John Creahan<br>
Cairn Law, PLLC<br>
<a href="tel:206-621-5848" target="_blank">206-621-5848</a><br>
Sent from my phone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:mike@winslegal.com" target="_blank">Mike Winslow</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">9/11/2015 9:50 AM</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Re: [WSBAPT] IRA trusts</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This is a complex area of tax law. I have used Judd Marten to advise on these provisions. He teaches
on the subject matter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Michael A. Winslow</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1204 Cleveland Ave.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Mount Vernon, WA 98273</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ph.
<a href="tel:360-336-3321" target="_blank">360-336-3321</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Em.
<a href="mailto:Mike@winslegal.com" target="_blank">Mike@winslegal.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This message is from an attorney, so it’s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it’s
too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jenna Brozik<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 11, 2015 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] IRA trusts</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello list mates,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have a married couple who are clients and they have several IRAs in their own names. I have already done a living trust for them. I had planned to list the living trust as the
secondary beneficiaries of the IRAs. Do you think it is necessary to do a separate IRA trust and list this separate IRA trust as the secondary beneficiary of the IRAs?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jenna Brozik</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Attorney at Law</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Prinz & Brozik PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">445 S Grand Ave<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Pullman, WA 99163<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="tel:%28509%29338-0908" target="_blank">(509)338-0908</a> /
<a href="tel:%28509%29%20338-3527" target="_blank">(509) 338-3527</a> (fax)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:jennaprinzlaw@gmail.com" target="_blank">jennaprinzlaw@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
WSBAPT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>