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</style><![endif]--><title>Re: [WSBAPT] Joint real property with right of survivorship - anything additional recorded at death of joint tenant?</title><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval:.5in'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I have posted comments on this<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>bulletin from the DOR in the past. In short, if heirs, other than a surviving spouse, want to skip probate and use the Lack of Probate Affidavit as the means to establish title, then they are going to pay an excise tax for the “transfer”. The alternative is to file a probate to avoid the excise tax.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Sometimes paying the excise tax is less money than doing a probate. Sometimes not. The DOR is still implementing policy of collecting tax, even though the so called “transfer” is by operation of law, and requires no recording of any document. For more on this, see attached memo from Dwight Bickel, <span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>title counsel for several title companies over the years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>For the surviving spouse, where title is taken as <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Husband and Wife</i>, the only necessary action is to record the Affidavit of Community Property, if there is no Community Property Agreement. If there is a CPA, then you may simply record the CPA. Attaching the death certificate to any recording is optional, but in my opinion prudent, if properly redacted. Any requirement of a deed in this situation is based on misinformation on the part of the Treasurer’s staff. The DOR bulletin you attached does not require a deed to accomplish change of record ownership on the tax rolls. You might call Steve Bren at the DOR and discuss with him. He administers this area for the DOR. He may be willing to <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>educate</i> the misinformed Treasurer. I believe Steve is the author of the bulletin you attached.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Michael A. Winslow<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>1204 Cleveland Ave.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Mount Vernon, WA 98273<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Ph. 360-336-3321<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Em. Mike@winslegal.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>This message is from an attorney, so it’s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it’s too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jennifer Johnson<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Joint real property with right of survivorship - anything additional recorded at death of joint tenant?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I haven’t run into this with an auditor’s office yet, but I have received this advice from employees in Treasurer’s office, one of whom was nice enough to suggest how I should word my deed in case I didn’t understand how it should be done. This person wouldn’t do anything unless I presented a deed (wouldn’t accept a death certificate) with the deceased spouse’s name on it, so I did a deed from the surviving spouse, as herself and as her husband’s heir, to the surviving spouse and claimed the inheritance exemption on the REET. It took less time for me to do the deed than it took for me to argue, and my client was ok with that, so that’s what we did. In other situations, if there has been a community property agreement, then I’ve recorded an affidavit and death certificate.<br><br>One of the Treasurers that I talked to about this issue told me that they are getting more stringent about these situations because of information that they received from the Department of Revenue about transfers when a married person dies. I’ve attached a copy of the document that she shared with me. I’d be interested to get others’ opinions about this. <br><br>Jennifer<br><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Big Caslon","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Jennifer M. Johnson | Attorney<br>Hanigan Law Office, P.S.<br>P.O. Box 39 / 68 Main Street<br>Cathlamet, WA 98612<br>(360) 795-3494<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br><img width=121 height=52 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01D0C5F5.384C2C80"><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br><br> <br><br><br>On 7/23/15 4:06 PM, "Mike Winslow" <<a href="mike@winslegal.com">mike@winslegal.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The language used in the deed “husband and wife” establishes community property. The reference to survivorship is extraneous. There is no need to record an additional deed. The clerk at the auditor’s office is <i>practicing law</i>, and that not very well. <br> <br>It would be useful to record an Affidavit of Community Property, with attachment of the death certificate (redacting the SSN and any other info you don’t want in the public record).<br>You should also notify the Assessor/Treasurer of the death and they will change the tax rolls to the survivor’s name.<br> <br>A form of affidavit is available at the DOR website and complies with the rules for exemption from excise tax. <a href="http://dor.wa.gov/content/Search/Default.aspx?search=affidavit+community+property">http://dor.wa.gov/content/Search/Default.aspx?search=affidavit+community+property</a><br>Select the first item in the screen and you will see the form in PDF.<br> <br>More Dirt, Than Dead,<br> <br> <br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>Michael A. Winslow<br>1204 Cleveland Ave.<br>Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>Ph. 360-336-3321<br>Em. <a href="Mike@winslegal.com">Mike@winslegal.com</a><br> <br>This message is from an attorney, so it’s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it’s too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.<br> <br></span><br></span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <a href="wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kristina DeVore<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Joint real property with right of survivorship - anything additional recorded at death of joint tenant?<br></span><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Listmates:<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I have a client who owned real property with her spouse. The husband owned the property initially, quit claimed the property to him and his wife as follows: “H and W, Husband and Wife, with Right of Survivorship.” Husband/Joint owner is now deceased. The recording office in Clark County tells me that I need to record a new deed and file an excise tax return as well. I was initially thinking that I would need to file the death certificate to show proof of death of joint tenant and possibly and affidavit. Is this additional step of recording a new deed necessary?<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Thanks for any words of wisdom!<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Kristina<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>Kristina S. DeVore</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'> | </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>Attorney & Counselor at Law<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>KRISTINA DEVORE LAW FIRM, p</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>llc</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'> | </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>300 W. 15th Street, Suite 305 </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>| </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>Vancouver, WA 98660<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>Phone: (360) 695-0535 </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>| </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>Fax: (360) 737-4154 </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'>| </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#006F37'><a href="kristina@devore-law.com">kristina@devore-law.com</a><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>This email message is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 19 USC Sections 2510-2521. Unauthorized review or distribution of this email message is strictly prohibited. This e-mail message is intended for the exclusive use of the person or persons to whom it is addressed. This email message may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you believe that you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Do not disseminate this e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and destroy the original message.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><hr size=3 width="95%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>_______________________________________________<br>WSBAPT mailing list<br><a href="WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</a></span><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>