<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Garamond;
panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;}
span.apple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Eric, yes, it is appropriate to reject the CC. I was addressing the overall issue of whether the debt goes away <i>completely, </i>which she didn’t ask. You answered her question because she asked specifically about the CC’s impact on the probate itself. I was trying to make the point that even if she is successful in rejecting the CC in the probate action, she may still be liable for the debt personally. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Nelsen<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 22, 2015 3:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Even if it's community debt, the S/L still bars collection from the <u>Estate</u> and/or the claim is not proper as to post-death debts. It's not proper to file a creditor claim against the Estate for debts incurred by the surviving spouse. So, I still think it's valid to reject the creditor claim. And I think accepting the creditor claim would cause more problems than rejecting it could, unless the widow plans to pay it off completely now anyway. Accepting the claim could cause the Estate to become insolvent, or require some kind of arrangement for payment before the Estate could be closed--all administrative headaches that I think can be legally and properly avoided.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Amy Goertz<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for your responses and input. My initial information is coming third-hand and I share the many doubts about whether the plan to extinguish the debt by saying the 2-year statute has passed is going to work. The date of death (10/2011) balance was $44,000; current balance is $47,000. Widow filed probate in November 2014. The file came to me today with the the hopes of getting something out of the estate. Yes, the card is in both names and she has made payments of approximately $1200/month since his death. <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'>Amy J. Goertz, J.D.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'>Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'>510 Bell Street</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'>Edmonds, WA 98020</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'><a href="mailto:amyjgoertz@icloud.com">amyjgoertz@icloud.com</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:black'>ph. 425.778.8997</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 22, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Sam Furgason <<a href="mailto:sam@furgasons.com">sam@furgasons.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I was wondering about that too, Paul. Why are the charges the husband incurred not community debt? Also, weren’t payments made for the two + years? Is continued use and payment not a confirmation of the debt? Aren’t payments applied on a FIFO basis? I can’t see how the widow could have continued use of the card for two years without paying off a lot of the pre-death obligation, even if she ran the total balance up. On another thought, I once got all credit card debt of a deceased spouse discharged by using the homestead allowance (although the spouses were legally separated when the debt was incurred by the decedent, so my client had no personal obligation on the accounts).<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>S </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Paul Neumiller<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:20 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>A contra argument could be made with more information. I wonder how the surviving spouse was able to continue to “use” her husband’s card. Maybe she is on the account and therefor personally liable anyway. In that case, she may win the probate battle but lose the collection war as to the full $15k.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Eric Nelsen<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, April 22, 2015 11:27 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>If you have your WSBAPT emails searchable, you might search for references to the "Henington" case; there was a good discussion on it middle of last year.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><u>In re Estate of Henington</u>, 331 P.3d 112 (Wash.App. Div. 2 2014),<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><u>rev. denied</u>, 182 Wn.2d 1005, 342 P.3d 327 (2015). I think the case is a little wacky but it's the most recent case on interaction of SOL and creditor claim process.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I think 2-year post-death SOL bars the claim for the $10,000, and the creditor claim process is not applicable to post-death debts incurred by the estate or the surviving spouse, so it should be completely rejected. I think that rejection wouldn't prevent them from trying to collect the post-death $5,000 from the surviving spouse, or from the Estate directly if it were estate expenses that were charged. But the creditor claim itself is improper because it is used for pre-death debts only.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Eric</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Eric C. Nelsen</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>1320 University St</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Seattle WA 98101-2837</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>phone 206-625-0092</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>fax 206-625-9040</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Amy Goertz<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Tuesday, April 21, 2015 2:35 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have an estate in which the husband died leaving a significant credit card balance ($10,000). Wife continued to use the husband’s card after his death, increasing it to the current balance of $15,000. Wife recently opened probate and published Notice to Creditors, sending actual notice to the credit card company. Creditor filed claim for total balance. Since more than two years has passed since the date of death, is there any way to argue that the S.O.L. has passed on the d.o.d. balance of $10,000? Any thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>Amy J. Goertz, J.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>510 Bell Street</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>Edmonds, WA 98020</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'><a href="mailto:amyjgoertz@icloud.com"><span style='color:purple'>amyjgoertz@icloud.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>ph. 425.778.8997</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>WSBAPT mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br></span><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>