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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dale,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>3 quick thoughts:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Frequently announced appellate court policy is that the courts will strive to carry out the decedent’s intent. Here, that intent is expressed in the beneficiary designation, at least as to the decedent’s interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The IRA agreement is a contractual agreement, but not necessarily legally controlling. Under qualified plans the U.S. S.Ct. decided – I believe in Egelhoff – that for the sake of administration of ERISA plans, the plan documents and federal law mandate that the administrator <i>distribute </i> to the spouse, BUT, cases have been brought contending that the intended beneficiary can go after the initial <i>distribute </i>to recover funds which should have gone to another. That principle might apply here, where the daughter could seek a judgment for the amount of the IRA funds which were the property of the decedent on the grounds that to do so would carry out the decedent’s intent. The requirement for the spouse to sign the form does not prevent a court from ordering the administrator, or the surviving spouse, or both, to deliver the separate and community ½ of the funds to the daughter. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Oh, and also, what does the IRA contract provide where the wife does not sign? Does the entire IRA pass to the spouse, or to the decedent’s estate, or what? It would seem to me that your fact leave open that obvious issue that the decedent died without any valid beneficiary designation, which often means the proceeds pass to his estate, not to the surviving spouse. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>S <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dale Young<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> wsbapt@LISTS.WSBARPPT.COM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] IRA/community property/probate question<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>No, to tell the honest truth, we haven't solved it yet, so any thoughts would be helpful.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><br id=FontBreak><br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Lowell Dale Young, LLC <span style='color:#3366FF'>From Real Estate to Your Estate</span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black'>Lowell Dale Young </span></i></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'>Advice to Real Estate Buyers & Sellers</span></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black'>Attorney At Law </span></i></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'> <b>Wills, Trusts, Estate Planning</b><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>119 First Ave S. #200 </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'>Probate and Avoiding Probate</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Seattle, WA </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Mailing address</span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>: </span></i><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></i></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>P.O. Box 25510</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Seattle, WA 98165</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Phone: 206-364-0200</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Fax: 206-363-0663</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Website: </span><a href="http://www.ldyounglaw.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0068CF'>www.ldyounglaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From: <a href="mailto:john@cairn-law.com">john@cairn-law.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 07:31:30 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] IRA/community property/probate question<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dale,<br>Did you resolve this issue? If not, I have some thoughts (which may or may not be helpful).<br>Thanks,<br>John<br><br>John Creahan<br>Cairn Law, PLLC<br>206-621-5848<br>Sent from my phone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:lowelldaleyoung@msn.com">Dale Young</a></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>ý1/ý9/ý2015 2:38 PM</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@LISTS.WSBARPPT.COM</a></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>[WSBAPT] IRA/community property/probate question</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Listmates,</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> here's one to get you reaching for your old copy of Harry Cross' Community Property law review article. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>It's the classic stepmother vs. child from the first marriage. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Client is named as beneficiary of her recently deceased father's IRA account (incidentally she is also named as the PR in his will and is</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>his sole heir in the will to all of this property).<br> <br>The father's surviving spouse (the client's stepmother) is also claiming the entire IRA account.<br> <br>The IRA was opened after his marriage to the stepmother, but the source of the funds can be traced to reveal it was about 15% separate funds and 85% community funds. (by the way the funds came from an 40lk rolled over into the IRA, which 40lk was 85%/15% community vs. separate funds)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>The IRA beneficiary form says if a community property state is involved then the form naming someone other than surviving spouse as a beneficiary has to have been signed by the surviving spouse. The surviving spouse had refused to sign as of the date of death. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>. <br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>RCW 26.16.030</span></strong> provides in part: <br> (1) Neither person shall devise or bequeath by will more than one-half of the community property.<br> <br> (2) Neither person shall give community property without the express or implied consent of the other.<br> <br> <br>My view of community property is that each spouse owns half, unless an agreement or court says otherwise, so in a person's will they<b> can</b> leave their 1/2 of community property to whomever they choose.<br> <br> However, an IRA is a nonprobate asset, not normally controlled by a will (unless it is a superwill, which this is not).<br> <br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>My conclusion </span></strong>is that the surviving spouse gets 100% of the community property portion of the account because the will has no effect upon the nonprobate asset. And, the beneficiary designation for the IRA account to his daughter cannot control the community property portion of the IRA account.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Therefore, the answer on who gets the money is just an accounting exercise to establish (1) what % of the invested funds were separate funds and (2) how much the current balance is the earnings and accumulations on the separate portion and how much on the community portion?? </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Thus, the lions share of the account goes to the surviving spouse and the much smaller portion goes to the daughter? </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Am I right so far??</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Any comments would help.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks, </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Dale Young</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Lowell Dale Young, LLC <span style='color:#3366FF'>From Real Estate to Your Estate</span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black'>Lowell Dale Young </span></i></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'>Advice to Real Estate Buyers & Sellers</span></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black'>Attorney At Law </span></i></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'> <b>Wills, Trusts, Estate Planning</b><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>119 First Ave S. #200 </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'>Probate and Avoiding Probate</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Seattle, WA </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Mailing address</span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>: </span></i><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></i></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>P.O. Box 25510</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Seattle, WA 98165</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Phone: 206-364-0200</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Fax: 206-363-0663</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Website: </span><a href="http://www.ldyounglaw.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0068CF'>www.ldyounglaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br>_______________________________________________ WSBAPT mailing list <a href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>