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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One could argue that it's an all-or-nothing proposition hinging on the
<u>validity of the beneficiary designation form</u>. If the form isn't valid because the surviving spouse didn't sign, then I think the IRA defaults to paying to the estate (for most custodians, anyway). If the form is otherwise valid but simply ineffective
as to half the CP, then the decedent's POD designation on the IRA should be honored as to the decedent's property interest, which is all the SP and half the CP. In your scenario, assuming 15% SP and 85% CP is provable, then 57.5% should go to daughter (15%
+ 42.5%) and 42.5% to surviving spouse.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Since the designation form is a non-testamentary instrument, it needs to meet the IRA custodian's requirements. So maybe the form isn't valid at all, and therefore
the IRA should be distributed under the custodian's default provisions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree that RCW 26.16.030(1) says, literally only "devise or bequeath." But without doing actual research, my gut tells me that the statute would be treated
as a more general prohibition on disposition at death of more than one-half of the community property, and so also permits POD designations of up to one-half of CP to persons other than the surviving spouse.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dale Young<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 09, 2015 2:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> wsbapt@LISTS.WSBARPPT.COM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] IRA/community property/probate question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Listmates,</span></strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> here's one to get you reaching for your old copy of Harry Cross' Community Property
law review article. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
It's the classic stepmother vs. child from the first marriage. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Client is named as beneficiary of her recently deceased father's IRA account (incidentally she is also named as the PR in his will and is</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">his sole heir in the will to all of this property).<br>
<br>
The father's surviving spouse (the client's stepmother) is also claiming the entire IRA account.<br>
<br>
The IRA was opened after his marriage to the stepmother, but the source of the funds can be traced to reveal it was about 15% separate funds and 85% community funds. (by the way the funds came from an 40lk rolled over into the IRA, which 40lk was 85%/15% community
vs. separate funds)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The IRA beneficiary form says if a community property state is involved then the form naming someone other than surviving spouse as a beneficiary has to have been signed by the
surviving spouse. The surviving spouse had refused to sign as of the date of death.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">. <br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">RCW 26.16.030</span></strong> provides in part: <br>
(1) Neither person shall devise or bequeath by will more than one-half of the community property.<br>
<br>
(2) Neither person shall give community property without the express or implied consent of the other.<br>
<br>
<br>
My view of community property is that each spouse owns half, unless an agreement or court says otherwise, so in a person's will they<b> can</b> leave their 1/2 of community property to whomever they choose.<br>
<br>
However, an IRA is a nonprobate asset, not normally controlled by a will (unless it is a superwill, which this is not).<br>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">My conclusion </span></strong>is that the surviving spouse gets 100% of the community property portion of the account because the will has no effect upon the nonprobate asset. And, the beneficiary
designation for the IRA account to his daughter cannot control the community property portion of the IRA account.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Therefore, the answer on who gets the money is just an accounting exercise to establish (1) what % of the invested funds were separate funds and (2) how much the current balance
is the earnings and accumulations on the separate portion and how much on the community portion??
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thus, the lions share of the account goes to the surviving spouse and the much smaller portion goes to the daughter?
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Am I right so far??</span></strong><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Any comments would help.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks,
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dale Young</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<pre><b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Lowell Dale Young, LLC <span style="color:#3366FF">From Real Estate to Your Estate</span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black">Lowell Dale Young </span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#3366FF">Advice to Real Estate Buyers & Sellers</span></b><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black">Attorney At Law </span></i></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#3366FF"> <b>Wills, Trusts, Estate Planning</b><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">119 First Ave S. #200 </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#3366FF">Probate and Avoiding Probate</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Seattle, WA </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Mailing address</span></i></b><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">: </span></i><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></i></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">P.O. Box 25510</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Seattle, WA 98165</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Phone: 206-364-0200</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Fax: 206-363-0663</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Website: </span><a href="http://www.ldyounglaw.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#0068CF">www.ldyounglaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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