<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>That's the one about the nonparticipant deceased spouse owning s CP interest. </div><div><br></div><div>John Sullivan<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 9, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mark Higgins <<a href="mailto:markthiggins@gmail.com">markthiggins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Dale--here are some nearly incomprehensible statutes you may not be aware of. I wasn't. They may not even apply:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">RCW 6.15.020(4), (6)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"> (4) For the purposes of this section, the<font style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"> term "employee benefit plan"</font> means any plan or arrangement that is described in RCW <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=49.64.020"><font color="#0066cc">49.64.020</font></a>, including any Keogh plan, whether funded by a trust or by an annuity contract, and in 26 U.S.C. Sec. 401(a) or 403(a) of the internal revenue code of 1986, as amended; or that is a tax-sheltered annuity or a custodial account described in section 403(b) of such code <font style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">or an individual retirement account </font>or an individual retirement annuity described in section 408 of such code; or a Roth individual retirement account described in section 408A of such code; or a medical savings account or a health savings account described in sections 220 and 223, respectively, of such code; or a retirement bond described in section 409 of such code as in effect before January 1, 1984. The term "employee benefit plan" shall not include any employee benefit plan that is established or maintained for its employees by the government of the United States, by the state of Washington under chapter <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=2.10"><font color="#0066cc">2.10</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=2.12"><font color="#0066cc">2.12</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.26"><font color="#0066cc">41.26</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.32"><font color="#0066cc">41.32</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.34"><font color="#0066cc">41.34</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.35"><font color="#0066cc">41.35</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.37"><font color="#0066cc">41.37</font></a>, <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.40"><font color="#0066cc">41.40</font></a>, or <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=43.43"><font color="#0066cc">43.43</font></a> RCW or RCW <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=41.50.770"><font color="#0066cc">41.50.770</font></a>, or by any agency or instrumentality of the government of the United States.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"> (6) Unless prohibited by federal law, nothing contained in subsection (3), (4), or (5) of this section shall be construed as a termination or limitation of a spouse's community property interest in an employee benefit plan held in the name of or on account of the other spouse, who is the participant or the account holder spouse. Unless prohibited by applicable federal law, at the death of the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse, the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse may transfer or distribute the community property interest of the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse in the participant or account holder spouse's employee benefit plan to the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse's estate, testamentary trust, inter vivos trust, or other successor or successors pursuant to the last will of the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse or the law of intestate succession, and that distributee may, but shall not be required to, obtain an order of a court of competent jurisdiction, including a nonjudicial binding agreement or order entered under chapter <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=11.96A"><font color="#0066cc">11.96A</font></a> RCW, to confirm the distribution. For purposes of subsection (3) of this section, the distributee of the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse's community property interest in an employee benefit plan shall be considered a person entitled to the full protection of subsection (3) of this section. The nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse's consent to a beneficiary designation by the participant or account holder spouse with respect to an employee benefit plan shall not, absent clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, be deemed a release, gift, relinquishment, termination, limitation, or transfer of the nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse's community property interest in an employee benefit plan. For purposes of this subsection, the term "nonparticipant, nonaccount holder spouse" means the spouse of the person who is a participant in an employee benefit plan or in whose name an individual retirement account is maintained. As used in this subsection, an order of a court of competent jurisdiction entered under chapter <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=11.96A"><font color="#0066cc">11.96A</font></a> RCW includes an agreement, as that term is used under RCW <a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=11.96A.220"><font color="#0066cc">11.96A.220</font></a>.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Dale Young <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lowelldaleyoung@msn.com" target="_blank">lowelldaleyoung@msn.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt"><font size="3" style="font-size:12pt"><strong>Listmates,</strong> here's one to get you reaching for your old copy
of Harry Cross' Community Property law review article. </font><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br><font size="3">
It's the classic stepmother vs. child from the first marriage. <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Client
is named as beneficiary of her recently deceased father's IRA account
(incidentally she is also named as the PR in his will and is</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">his sole heir in
the will to all of this property).<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
The father's surviving spouse (the client's stepmother) is also claiming the
entire IRA account.<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
The IRA was opened after his marriage to the stepmother, but the source of the
funds can be traced to reveal it was about 15% separate funds and 85% community
funds. (by the way the funds came from an 40lk rolled over into the IRA,
which 40lk was 85%/15% community vs. separate funds)<u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">The
IRA beneficiary form says if a community property state is involved then the
form naming someone other than surviving spouse as a beneficiary has to have
been signed by the surviving spouse. The surviving spouse had
refused to sign as of the date of death. <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">. </font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
<strong>RCW 26.16.030</strong> provides in part: <br></font><font size="3">
</font><font size="3">
(1) Neither person shall devise or bequeath by will more than one-half of the
community property.<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
(2) Neither person shall give community property without the express or
implied consent of the other.<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
</font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
My view of community property is that each spouse owns half, unless an
agreement or court says otherwise, so in a person's will they</font><b><font size="3"> can</font></b><font size="3"> leave
their 1/2 of community property to whomever they choose.<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
However, an IRA is a nonprobate asset, not normally controlled by a
will (unless it is a superwill, which this is not).<br></font><font size="3">
<br></font><font size="3">
<strong>My conclusion </strong>is that the surviving spouse gets 100% of the community
property portion of the account because the will has no effect upon the
nonprobate asset. And, the beneficiary designation for the
IRA account to his daughter cannot control the community property portion of
the IRA account.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Therefore,
the answer on who gets the money is just an accounting exercise to
establish (1) what % of the invested funds were separate funds and (2) how much
the current balance is the earnings and accumulations on the separate portion
and how much on the community portion?? <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Thus, the
lions share of the account goes to the surviving spouse and the much smaller
portion goes to the daughter? <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"><strong>Am
I right so far??<u></u><u></u></strong></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Any
comments would help.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Thanks,
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3"> <u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><font size="3">Dale
Young<u></u><u></u></font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></font>
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