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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Even though judicial
officers (judges and commissioners) are not supposed to conduct
their own evidence-gathering investigations concerning petitions
presented to them, some nonetheless do so. The petitioner's sworn
petition states that the death occurred, and it normally states
that the proposed PR had never been convicted of a felony or crime
of moral turpitude. Nonetheless, in Pierce County the court
commissioners require petitioners to fill out a little form (that
is never filed) with the proposed PR's birthdate, and the
courtroom clerk (or the jurist) then checks a criminal records
database concerning the proposed PR before appointing him or her.
Jurists have been disciplined</font> for conducting their own
evidence-gathering investigations, and I find no rule that supports
the database investigations, but they do it anyway.<br>
<br>
I assume that the criminal records database that they check is not
freely available to the attorneys who represent the proposed PR.
And I don't believe that CR 11 requires an attorney to do a criminal
background check of a probate client who swears to having no
criminal record.<br>
<br>
ER 1101(4) states that the Evidence Rules are inapplicable to
protect order proceedings, so jurist apparently may then check civil
and criminal databases, but the rule requires that the jurist
disclose the database information to the parties. The Evidence
Rules and the Code of Judicial Conduct are applicable to probate
estate proceedings.<br>
<br>
Doug Schafer, attorney in Tacoma.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/5/2015 11:40 AM, Peterson, Eileen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BA9A6FF8E05C764CBD469859CC2E0E250DEF0962@Spock.GTH.gth-law.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic
Book","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m very
unclear why any of this happening. Presumably, the Petition
(sworn under oath) indicates the date of death. I don’t
think that it is required, but for some reason the Court is
exercising its discretion – but why? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic
Book","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="punctuation-wrap:hanging;text-autospace:ideograph-numeric
ideograph-other"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F6062;position:relative;top:0pt;mso-text-raise:0pt">Eileen
S. Peterson<br>
</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00A0AF;position:relative;top:0pt;mso-text-raise:0pt">Attorney
at Law</span></b><b><span
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</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00A0AF;position:relative;top:0pt;mso-text-raise:0pt">T</span></b><b><span
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253 620 6419<br>
</span></b><b><span
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253 620 6565<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Joyce S. Schwensen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 05, 2015 11:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Starting probate without
death certificate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yup.
That is what I’ve been asked to do by the commissioner in
King County on several occasions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Neumiller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 05, 2015 10:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cole-gilday@stanwoodlaw.net">cole-gilday@stanwoodlaw.net</a>;
'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Starting probate without
death certificate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
am curious. How does one “present” something to the court
but not “file” it? Hold it up for the judge and say “looky
here?” Hand it up to the judge and then get it back?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:[mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]">[mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert R. Cole<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 5, 2015 10:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Starting probate without
death certificate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish County Commissioners want the
death certificated presented (but not filed).<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very Truly Yours,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Robert R. Cole<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Law Office of Cole & Gilday, P.C. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="punctuation-wrap:hanging;text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="position:relative;top:0pt;mso-text-raise:0pt">On
1/5/2015 9:06 AM, Thomas M. Culbertson wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Looks like
King County may be the only one where the question is even
asked. Don’t forget you can file in any county, generally
by mail, so if you anticipate problems locally, file
somewhere else.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part11.08000304.08080800@pobox.com" border="0"
height="2" width="327"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">THOMAS
M. CULBERTSON </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Lukins
& Annis, PS</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">717
W. Sprague Ave, Suite 1600, Spokane, WA 99201</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">(509)
455-9555</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> I
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> fax
(509) 363-2500</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
I </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tculbertson@lukins.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">tculbertson@lukins.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eden Rubenstein Toner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 02, 2015 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Starting probate without
death certificate</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
was asked for it the last time I opened a probate in King
County. I didn’t have it, and was able to open the
probate anyway, but in the future I’m going to try to have
it before going to court.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Eden Rubenstein Toner</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Attorney at Law</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">1600-B SW Dash Point Road,
#163</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Federal Way, WA 98023</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">phone 206-953-4485</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:attorneytoner@earthlink.net">attorneytoner@earthlink.net</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Andrew Hay [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrewhay@washingtonlaw.net">mailto:andrewhay@washingtonlaw.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Starting probate without
death certificate</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello
Listmates</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have a
case where a lady is in her last days and has a closing
pending. If she does not survive to closing I may have to
open a probate before the death certificate is available.
Has anyone had similar problem?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Andrew Hay</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Hay & Swann PLLC</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">201 South 34th Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tacoma, WA 98418<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: (253) 272-2400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fax: (253) 267-8947<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.washingtonlaw.net/"><span
style="color:black">www.washingtonlaw.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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