[WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

Thu Sep 18 11:32:26 PDT 2025

Eric: 

Recently the WA AG’s office brought a consumer protection case regarding hundreds of probate scams. Perhaps requiring death certificates helps avoid these types of scams as well. Here’s the link to the AG’s office press release: https://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/judge-freezes-company-bank-accounts-lawsuit-over-probates-profit-scheme-ag-brown

-Margaret

From: <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Eric Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
Reply-To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2025 at 11:13 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

I’ve heard that the issue was a spate of probates, some 10-15 years ago, that were opened for people who were still alive in order to scam/embezzle/steal assets. I don’t know if that’s true, but it explains why the court seemed—to me—to suddenly start insisting on a death certificate after many years of accepting the allegation of death in the verified petition to open the probate.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

eric at sayrelawoffices.com

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Joshua McKarcher
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2025 9:24 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

An unsworn statement like this should work just as it works to allege solvency without submitting bank records; heirship and relationship and AGE without birth records; and all the other things contained in a petition. What justifies the distinction?

I keep hearing of one-off Washington and Idaho county courts that require death certificates (and in most I hear it is to make part of the court record, which blows my mind) . . . just because that local judge considers it necessary proof. 

But of course they accept the unsworn declarations under penalty of perjury (or the sworn affidavit before a notary public) to establish nearly all other facts necessary to grant relief requested.

It’s not terribly logical of these judges. 

I’m very glad we have no courts in our region that require death certificates at least maybe from known law firms or petitioners they know and trust? Maybe because we have never had a wave of people filing probates for living people? 

There is nothing to stop a judge from declining relief requested by a completely unknown application/petitioner. But to demand it of every long-established practitioner filing (Brent’s) 15 probates in 2 months? Why?

If one pauses to consider all that is admitted and relied upon in American state-court probate and trust practice based on affidavits alone, it’s quite stunning. It is obviously based on the trust existing between the BENCH and the PETITIONING ATTORNEYS in that region – which is perfectly fine as a policy matter.

Pair that with the permissibility of service by mail without summons as in ordinary civil litigation, and perhaps it leads to the answer: maybe some judges take so much on faith that they feel they must at least make sure “we’re doing all of this to a NOT LIVING person’s property.” 

If so, maybe I can live with that. But making DCs part of the court record, redacted or not, I just do not understand.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Wendy Allard
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2025 8:28 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

You don't often get email from wallard at prklaw.com. Learn why this is important 
For years, I have submitted a declaration that I have a copy of the death certificate and have not had an issue (knock on wood).

Wendy

Wendy L. Allard | PRK Livengood

Partner

Peterson Russell Kelly Livengood PLLC

10900 NE 4th Street, Suite 1850

Bellevue, WA 98004

O:  425.462.4700  |   D:  425.990.4016  |   F: 425.451.0714 
wallard at prklaw.com  |  www.prklaw.com

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2025 6:22 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

considering that I have opened 15 probates since July 1st and this is the only one to be denied.....I believe this is Judge Scott.

I was reminded about a prior post from a long time back about an attorney who submits a declaration regarding their review of the death certificate.  I may make up a standard declaration and do the same thing to avoid this as it is just ridiculous. 

Brent Williams-Ruth (pronouns: he/him)
Attorney-At-Law

Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC

Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003

Mailing Address: PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 

Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751

For All Meetings & Scheduling: info at williams-ruthlaw.com

e-mail / website / facebook / 

On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 5:42 PM Sandra Perkins <sandra at slplaw.net> wrote:

Back in 2020, I spoke with the Clerk’s office about uploading (and not e-filing) the death certificate.  They specifically told me NOT to redact anything from the death certificate.  It is not e-filed, so it is not public.  It is just for the Court Commissioner to review as part of the Ex Parte submission.

Obviously, Brent is being told something different now.  Is this a new rule, or just a quirk of Judge Scott’s?

Sandra Perkins

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Carl Gay
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2025 5:04 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

For a very long time, I have always redacted the decedent’s Social Security number and mother’s maiden name.

Why invite identity theft?

CARL LLOYD GAY

    Non nobis solum nati sumus

      “Not unto ourselves alone are we born” 

                   ~the motto of Willamette University~

                          Law Offices

      GREENAWAY & GAY 

     Attorneys and Counselors at Law 

                     (Established 1985)

734 East First Street       Suite A

Port Angeles, Washington   98362

Email                      carl at greenawaylawfirm.com

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2025 4:44 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Denied Order Opening Probate because of Non-Redacted SSN

I just had Judge Scott in King County deny an order opening probate because I didn't comply with GR 31 and because I did not redact the SSN from the death certificate. 

First off - question - does anyone redact the SSN before presenting to open for probate? In the 10 years I have been doing this now, I have never redacted the SSN. Before COVID, I opened cases in person and would just hand up a death certificate.  Then came covid and I would upload BUT NOT FILE;  then came the new KC Script portal and they have the "additional document" tab where again, I would upload but not file. 

GR 31(e)(1) states that you have to redact any personally identifiable information from documents being FILED with the Court. 

Just curious what others do and if you have encountered this before. 

Brent

Brent Williams-Ruth (pronouns: he/him)
Attorney-At-Law

Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC

Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003

Mailing Address: PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 

Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751

For All Meetings & Scheduling: info at williams-ruthlaw.com

e-mail / website / facebook / 

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