[WSBAPT] Bank hoops

[Setareh Mahmoodi]

Eric,

I totally understand! However, if you're pressed for time or need the documents urgently, I recommend checking if they have local counsel or reaching out directly to their legal department. I’ve had similar issues before, and every time I was able to speak with either an attorney or someone in their legal department, the problem was magically resolved—which, admittedly, makes it all the more frustrating. But if you're looking for a shortcut, that’s worked for me in the past.

Setareh


Best regards,

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Setareh Mahmoodi

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Eric Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2024 9:25 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Bank hoops


I guess in this circumstance I am the fussy type. I know that I can get subpoena authority or an order to get the records from the bank—even the bank acknowledges that they’d produce the records in response to a subpoena.



But the bank’s position is contrary to their depositor’s rights to obtain records and the PR’s succession to all rights of the decedent under the law. So I want to make a record, force them to answer, make them lose and pay attorney fees, and then if they ever try it again in another case, go after them for CR 11 sanctions in addition.



It’s this kind of fatheaded bureaucratic “reasoning” that makes life so much more difficult for people. At this point, I’d do the extra work pro bono so I have the opportunity to tilt at this particular windmill.



Sincerely,



Eric



Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Christopher Neil
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 5:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Bank hoops



This is a problem, for sure.



Rather than make a big fuss (my letter and phone calls were rebuffed), I filed this petition and got this order in July of this year to get old records from Key Bank (unlike Eric, I AM naming names here…).



It worked like a charm and was relatively low cost to the client.







Chris Neil | Attorney | Neil & Neil, P.S.

5302 Pacific Avenue, Tacoma, WA 98408 | Chris.Neil at NeilLaw.com<mailto:Chris.Neil at NeilLaw.com>
(253)475-8600 | f:(253)473-5746

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On Dec 10, 2024, at 4:57 PM, Mark Vohr <mcv at ohanafc.com<mailto:mcv at ohanafc.com>> wrote:



I get that – we fight these battles all the time.  Some bozo in another jurisdiction who has been out of law school for two minutes interpreting these “rules.”  Good news is that the courts know it and will usually award attorney fees.  It makes it worth the effort to write that letter you are comfortable having the commissioner read.



Regards,



Mark



Mark C. Vohr, J.D. CPGC

Ohana Fiduciary Corporation

A Washington Trust Company

155 NE 100th St., Suite 209

Seattle, WA  98125

Telephone:  (206) 782-1189



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 4:47 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Bank hoops



Mark, I entirely agree, though the structural integrity of my “professionally” discipline is under severe strain these days. As to banks, bureaucrats, corporate shills, AI boosters, insurance companies....



Sincerely,



Eric



Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Mark Vohr
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 4:25 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Bank hoops



Bank is wrong, but you know that.  Our strategy is to write a letter, tell them they are not leaving you any choice but to seek a court order, which will include a request for attorney fees.  Cite the statute.  Give them a recent copy of the your letters.  Give them 14 days to respond.   If they still refuse, use TEDRA, file a petition for an order granting access, ask for attorney fees under RCW 11.96A.150.  Make sure the court knows you tried to resolve this through the letter.  Tip – write the letter so that the commissioners can see that you tried to resolve it professionally.



Regards,



Mark



Mark C. Vohr, J.D. CPGC

Ohana Fiduciary Corporation

A Washington Trust Company

155 NE 100th St., Suite 209

Seattle, WA  98125

Telephone:  (206) 782-1189



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 3:48 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Bank hoops



I represent a PR. Bank who shall remain nameless is insisting that my PR can only have bank statements after date of death to present, and nothing before date of death. Bank says we have to send them a subpoena for pre-death records. Because, says Bank, “account information before our client’s death are not part of the estate and any accounts closed out were closed by the owner.”



Anyone else encountering this nonsense? My position is and always has been that the PR steps into the shoes of the decedent, and has the exact same contractual right as the decedent to request any and all records from a bank, pursuant to whatever contract of deposit or other agreement the decedent had with the bank. If the decedent had a  residual right to request records on a closed account, then so does a PR. RCW 11.48.010, RCW 11.48.020, RCW 11.48.090, RCW 11.60.060, RCW 4.20.046(1).



Imagine if a medical provider took this stance—“I can only give you medical records for procedures performed after death.”



Sincerely,



Eric



Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South

Seattle WA 98144-3909

206-625-0092

eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>



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