[WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

Fri Sep 29 12:47:46 PDT 2023

Some listservs request that you not forward the emails of others without their permission.  Of course, even if it were a rule, it would be difficult to enforce.
An even better rule:  Do not post anything that you would not want to appear on the front page of the New York Times the next day.
Phil Jones

Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500
Portland, OR 97204
pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>
(503) 226-1371 – office
(503) 853-1482 – cell
(503) 226-3574 - fax

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of msafren at jennylinglaw.com
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 10:15 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

Hello Fellow Posters,

I’ll bring this interaction and the postings to the attention RPPT Executive Committee, which has an upcoming meeting scheduled for October 7, 2023.

I’ll point out that the postings are all public, the posting are not anonymous, and are not confidential in any way.  The postings are automatically archived so that postings may be searched/ searchable by topic, date, and poster.

The posted listserv rules explicitly state “ Use caution when discussing items. Information posted on the lists is available for all to see, and comments are subject to libel, slander, and antitrust laws.”   They further state “Please note carefully all items listed in the disclaimer and legal rules below, particularly regarding the copyright ownership of information posted to the list. Remember that the WSBA RPPT and other e-mail list participants have the right to reproduce postings to this listserv.”

I would urge all listserv uses and subscribers to review the listserv rules, etiquette, and guidelines which are posted on the wsbarppt.com website under the Listserv Tab which is nested under the For Members Tab.

Kind regards,
Michael S. Safren, Esq.
Attorney at Law

14900 Interurban Ave. S., Ste. 280 | Seattle, WA 98168<https://www.google.com/maps/search/14900+Interurban+Ave.+S.,+Ste.+280+%7C+Seattle,+WA+98168?entry=gmail&source=g>
11900 NE 1st St., Bldg. G - Ste. 300<https://www.google.com/maps/search/11900+NE+1st+St.,+Bldg.+G+-+Ste.+300?entry=gmail&source=g> |  Bellevue, WA 98005
P: (206) 859-5098 | E: msafren at jennylinglaw.com<mailto:msafren at jennylinglaw.com>
www.jennylinglaw.com<http://www.jennylinglaw.com/> | facebook.com/jennylinglaw/<http://www.facebook.com/jennylinglaw/>

This communication, including attachments, may contain information that is confidential and protected by the attorney/client or other privileges. It constitutes non-public information intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). If the reader or recipient of this communication is not the intended recipient, an employee or agent of the intended recipient who is responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, or you believe that you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including attachments without reading or saving them in any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this e-mail, including attachments, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not a waiver of any attorney/client or other privilege.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of michael westseattleattorney.com
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 9:25 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

Hi, I appreciate the kindness, but I really wanted the discussion to turn to the issue of changing the listserves rule about reposting to require permission of the poster - consider the reason I gave, but also think about what if your advice to a fellow attorney is sent to Joe public as legal advice. Do we want to have an open forum where ideas flow freely and where we can be transparent?  Consider asking other lists what their policy is and perhaps a simple rule change here requiring permission of the poster before reposting. Thanks

[cid:image001.png at 01D9F2D3.2474DCC0]

________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 7:35 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

I am sorry this happened to you, Michael, and probably I failed my dear mother by not first expressing compassion that you experienced something so startling as having words written in trust to fellow attorneys served back up to you in a very unexpected context (especially if it was after you’d won some motion or case).

Hang in there, and consider individual inquiries at times perhaps, maybe especially pre-filing or pre-litigation.

Enjoy the weekend -- and (if I may) Go Mariners!!!

Best, Josh

Joshua D. McKarcher
McKarcher Law PLLC
537 6th Street
Clarkston, WA 99403
(509) 758-3345
(509) 758-3314 (fax)
josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
www.mckarcherlaw.com<http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/>
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of michael westseattleattorney.com <michael at westseattleattorney.com<mailto:michael at westseattleattorney.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 5:46 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

The Attorney herself sent me the policy, which allows what you said. Honestly, to me, it's just a distraction that the Court sees all of the time when the opposing counsel "who lost the case" is only being a sore loser. Like someone kicked out of the sandbox when they were a child.  I am not worried about it. I want to point out that not all listserves have this policy -- some require permission from the poster. Perhaps I am too old and the world has passed me by, but I believe it's what the list is about. If we indeed desire to be other-focused and really want to give and help one another, then there should be a level of trust that you can be transparent.

[cid:image001.png at 01D9F2D3.2474DCC0]
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 6:03 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

I assume a section leader will need to reply, but I’m not aware of any reason anything we say on this listserv is NOT in the public domain and 100% fair game. This is not a lawyer help hotline or ethics hotline. I have never understood I have some promise of confidence.

I will admit, in case it saves anyone similar trouble, and even if it makes me sound unkind or something (which I’m not), that I have been gobsmacked at times at what people are willing to disclose on this “very public listserv.”

I have honestly wondered if opposing counsel have at times used a lawyer’s words against them.

Perhaps this is a good “moment” for us all to consider that, so long as what is used is not altered or misrepresented, there is no basis for its suppression, unless perhaps some rule exists that was approved by the state supreme court or is memorialized in a statute. (What basis would any other authority have to restrict words put into the public domain? Even if WSBA punished the “user’s” use as an ethical violation or something, that doesn’t mean a court would strike it from the record if it’s accurate and truthful, etc.)

We best speak very generally at times and consider asking only an individual lawyer or two privately about questions that could expose strategy, lack of “competence” (where it “matters”), lack of certainty (that later evolves to certainty in pleadings), etc. I think it’s completely reasonable to assume one is writing to the very lawyer one is litigating against or MAY END UP litigating against after posting.

Best, Josh

Joshua D. McKarcher

McKarcher Law PLLC

537 6th Street

Clarkston, WA 99403

(509) 758-3345

(509) 758-3314 (fax)

josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>

www.mckarcherlaw.com<http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/>

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of michael westseattleattorney.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 12:12 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Attorneys stalking one another on List

Hi,

I just received a pleading where the opposing counsel is using a redacted copy of a post on this list as a personal attack on me. Is that allowed by our rules?  It seems that it would give us a reason to think twice about using this listserve.

Thanks

Mike

[cid:image002.png at 01D9F2D3.2474DCC0]

[cid:image001.png at 01D9F2D3.2474DCC0]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20230929/68c616bb/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 57245 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20230929/68c616bb/image001-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 584909 bytes
Desc: image002.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20230929/68c616bb/image002-0001.png>