[WSBAPT] off topic

Sat Jun 17 11:05:23 PDT 2023

Hi Marsha,

With a loss of the size, I would 100% recommend she first or instead hire coverage counsel. I started my career representing policyholders (in insurance insolvency matters at a Washington DC law firm where I lived at the time; it was very “eye opening”).

I have a whole different view of what it means for a policyholder in a large claim like this to have experienced insurance coverage counsel. It does not mean you're suing the insurer or even that you do not trust them. In fact, it could help ensure that there never does need to be a lawsuit; and it may make the entire process much smoother and quicker if the policyholder hires the right lawyer with the right personality (such as, not knee-jerk litigious, oppositional, and determined to fight).

That lawyer could hire an investigator if needed.

Best, Josh

Joshua D. McKarcher
McKarcher Law PLLC
537 6th Street
Clarkston, WA 99403
(509) 758-3345
(509) 758-3314 (fax)
josh at mckarcherlaw.com
www.mckarcherlaw.com<http://www.mckarcherlaw.com>
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Marsha Hudson <marsha at griffyn.us>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2023 8:50:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] off topic

Dear colleagues,

I apologize for duplicate posting.

After a house fire, when working with the homeowner’s insurance, would it advisable do you think for the home owner to hire her own investigator to evaluate the loss?  I may be a cynic but I think it’s against the insurance company’s interest to pay the maximum available.  In this case, all those decades of priceless possessions, and the home, which Zillow listed at $4mil the day before, are a total loss.  If you would advise an independent investigator, can anyone make a recommendation?

FYI, the home owner, who turns 90 this week, was home when the fire broke out.  After 24 hours in the hospital she was released and is home with one of her sons.  If there is a bright side, it brought her four boys together for the first time since the pandemic.  They raked through the muck to see what could be salvaged.  She is stoic and is already thinking about buying a smaller home.

Take aways: Video record ALL of your possessions.  Have a fire extinguisher handy to every room.  And GET OUT.

Marsha

Marsha C. Hudson
(She/Her/Hers)

Attorney at Law #23330

3221 NW 62nd Street, Seattle, WA  98107

Telephone: 206-297-3933

Fax: 206-357-9356
marsha at griffyn.us<mailto:marsha at griffyn.us>

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Doehne, Jen
Sent: Friday, May 5, 2023 2:24 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Estate Tax Question

Hi Inge,

It’s important to differentiate the different types of taxes: income for the estate, real estate excise for the sale/transfer of real property, and excise for the estate.

-->If the PR is transferring the property to a beneficiary (no sale), there would be no real estate excise transfer tax.

-->If the PR is transferring the property to a beneficiary (no sale), if there is an income tax return required to be filed (1041), it would be because other assets earned over $600 in the calendar or fiscal year after death…but the transfer of the property would not lead to this decision.

-->If the total estate of the decedent consisted of over $2,193,000 in assets, there would be a Washington Estate (excise) Tax return filing required.  When calculating the total value of the estate, you would use the date of death value of assets and yes, this value would include the value of the house.

The three taxes above would apply regardless of whether there was a probate opened or not -think of probate as asking the court’s permission to transfer the assets. The only impact on a probate is to consider if any taxes are required to be filed, the probate will likely need to stay open for the conclusion of those filing (perhaps even the receipt of the satisfaction from the Department of Revenue if an estate tax (excise) return is required).  Your Declaration of Completion of Probate would reference that there are no estate taxes outstanding as of the date of closing probate.

The EIN would be required if 1. The real property is sold and the proceeds must be distributed into an estate bank account (the bank account would require the EIN to be opened) OR 2. The estate earned over $600 in income and form 1041 is required to be filed.  The Washington estate (excise) tax return does not require an EIN to be filed.

Regarding the mortgage – was the transfer of real property a specific bequest to your client?  If so, your client must take the property along with all attachments. Therefore it was her responsibility to either assume or pay the mortgage anyway. (You mention that “the property is in her name now”.) If the bequest was part of the residue, that makes it a bit tougher because it sounds like there are no other assets to be reimbursed from. If she was the sole beneficiary, my answer is the same. If there were other beneficiaries, how did your client end up with 100% of the property?  If she is jointly owning the property with other beneficiaries, I would argue that the other owners should reimburse her to their proportion of ownership.  Have they stated they will not do so?

I am not sure where the EIN comes into the conversation here….but it would depend on your answers above.

Should you need to apply for an EIN, personally, I would choose the last of the two to die and apply for only one. However, it has been awhile since I have administered a joint estate, someone else may have to advise on this question.

Best,

Jen

Jen Doehne, Attorney
Pronouns she/her/hers
[cid:image002.jpg at 01D9A0F8.D4593550]

909 A Street, Suite 600 | Tacoma, WA 98402
phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/>

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Inge Fordham
Sent: Friday, May 5, 2023 1:54 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Estate Tax Question

Estate tax gurus,

I have a client who opened probate for the sole purpose of executing a PR deed to transfer real property.  The estate has no other assets.  She has not obtained an EIN or opened an estate bank account.  Does she need to file an estate tax return?

Second question – My client paid off the mortgage with her personal funds.  The mortgage company will not issue a check refunding the balance of the escrow account to my client, personally (even though the property is in her name now).  We can ask the mortgage company to issue the check to the estate.  This is a joint estate (for Grandma and Grandpa).  Would I just obtain an EIN for the last grandparent to pass?  (The IRS won’t allow me to input information for two decedents, even though their estates are being probated as a joint estate).  I’m concerned the mortgage company will want to write a check to “Estates of Grandpa and Grandma.”  Do banks object to opening an estate account in joint probate scenarios (with names of two decedents)?

Thanks in advance!

[uc%3fexport=download&id=1W3rEcChy0_E0cCfV5up02mkhwnL6eWIs&revid=0B4P5JoIHdbFaR29EbHlRWHFseFV5STZpSUVGeUNPWldkVDFVPQ]

Inge A. Fordham | Attorney

Fordham Law, PLLC

3218 Sixth Avenue | Tacoma, WA 98406

Office: (253) 348-2657 | Mobile: (206) 778-3131

www.fordhamlegal.com<http://www.fordhamlegal.com>

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