[WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

Roger Hawkes roger at skyvalleylawyers.com
Thu Feb 16 13:14:59 PST 2023


Agreed; and include qc deeds from each to the other that is recorded same time as todd.

-----Original Message-----
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 12:32 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

Quick thought "no basis" is never a slam dunk.  By way of example, if community funds, which are most funds accumulated during marriage" a surviving spouse might have a spousal lien.  To ensure their understanding, you best bet is for a Property Status Agreement with full disclosure of which each has and that they are both entitled to direct the distribution of their separate property upon their death regardless of source of funds for any payments related to separate property.  That is the best defense to a challenge in my humble opinion.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA  99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com
509-455-5300

-----Original Message-----
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Karen Cobb
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 12:24 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

I am working through one of these right now.  

Scenario:  Mother of two adult daughters owns separate real property which she lives.  Mother has been married several times, and is now married, but has never lived with current husband, who has his own separate real property. Their finances are completely separate.
Mother wants to deed the house to her two daughters upon her death, but for whatever reason does not want the husband to know that now.  In my mind so long as we make clear that the property is her separate property (in the TODD and explained further in her Will), he would have no basis to challenge.  Agree?

Karen L. Cobb
Attorney at Law
206.486.8003

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Today's Topics:

   1. Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Lynn Clare)
   2. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Diane J. Kiepe)
   3. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Roger Hawkes)
   4. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Roger Hawkes)
   5. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Paul Neumiller)
   6. Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Dalynne Singleton)
   7. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (michael westseattleattorney.com)
   8. Re: Can an Heir Contest a TODD? (Carl Gay)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:37:19 -0800
From: Lynn Clare <lynnclare at clarelawfirm.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust listserve" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<CAEW-UCrLcoWN_9x+OkFccHSHJsY5ECGvu8oHSVDu6ie6roduQg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 22:46:17 +0000
From: "Diane J. Kiepe" <DJKiepe at depdslaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<MW3PR18MB357979A28BD888B59EEC21E1D5A39 at MW3PR18MB3579.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

That is fascinating; I could see a creditor being able to contest for 2 years but have not heard the information below ? will be curious to see responses.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA  99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC


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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 22:51:48 +0000
From: Roger Hawkes <roger at skyvalleylawyers.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<CO6PR20MB3668E14C2B1ACA6E6724D4C2D5A39 at CO6PR20MB3668.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

There is a two year sol, from death, for folks to sue a decedent?s estate; I assume that is what it?s about.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC


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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 22:52:50 +0000
From: Roger Hawkes <Roger at law-hawks.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<CO6PR16MB4097A627727D1E7AFD3AC76AE9A39 at CO6PR16MB4097.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Assume the clearest case you can  of someone pressuring a decedent to do a todd.  What remedies and for how l ong?

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:46 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

That is fascinating; I could see a creditor being able to contest for 2 years but have not heard the information below ? will be curious to see responses.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA  99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC


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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 22:53:21 +0000
From: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<MW3PR13MB3980F67225E68A30FB44FA89D2A39 at MW3PR13MB3980.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

See RCW 64.80.100 and 64.80.120.  It is my understanding that the title companies treat this like a ?lack of probate? situation so they are concerned about the 2 year statute after a person dies.


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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC


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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 23:05:01 +0000
From: Dalynne Singleton <dalynne at glgmail.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<BY5PR12MB55426A7FA09858FBECCF2E6BA5A39 at BY5PR12MB5542.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have had two cases on TOD deeds.


  1.  I was able to file a TEDRA for fraud against the daughter of the decedent who received and recorded the TOD to avoid creditors.  A TEDRA agreement was reached in that one and a deed transferring the property back to the Estate was recorded.
  2.  I had the court declare, as a matter of law, a TOD transfer because it was recorded hours AFTER death which the statute does not allow.  The court order for a TOD revocation was made and it has been recorded.  The house/property became an estate asset.  My client is one of the heirs of the Estate.  The TOD recording transferred the property to one sister of four siblings.  The Will provides for all 4 children.

Dalynne Singleton
Gourley Law Group
Snohomish Escrow
The Exchange Connection
1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
Snohomish, WA 98291
360.568.5065
360.568.8092  fax
dalynne at glgmail.com<mailto:dalynne at glgmail.com>
Website:  www.glglawgroup.com<http://www.glglawgroup.com/>
Attorney/client meetings will be handled by teleconference or virtually whenever possible.  If you would like to set a telephone conference, zoom, Microsoft teams or in person meeting, please call or email my paralegal theresa at glgmail.com, angelina at glgmail.com<mailto:theresa at glgmail.com,%20angelina at glgmail.com> or dominika at glgmail.com<mailto:dominika at glgmail.com>.

LICENSED IN WASHINGTON
IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s).  Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message.  If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission, rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:46 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

That is fascinating; I could see a creditor being able to contest for 2 years but have not heard the information below ? will be curious to see responses.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA  99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

Lynn Clare
Clare Law Firm, PLLC


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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 23:35:43 +0000
From: "michael westseattleattorney.com"
	<michael at westseattleattorney.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID:
	<MW4PR05MB82202EA3A768744FF64EA5F7B7A39 at MW4PR05MB8220.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Way to go - thanks for sharing - M

[cid:a4c13412-671f-4421-98da-af38702d47aa]
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Dalynne Singleton <dalynne at glgmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 3:05 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?


I have had two cases on TOD deeds.



  1.  I was able to file a TEDRA for fraud against the daughter of the decedent who received and recorded the TOD to avoid creditors.  A TEDRA agreement was reached in that one and a deed transferring the property back to the Estate was recorded.
  2.  I had the court declare, as a matter of law, a TOD transfer because it was recorded hours AFTER death which the statute does not allow.  The court order for a TOD revocation was made and it has been recorded.  The house/property became an estate asset.  My client is one of the heirs of the Estate.  The TOD recording transferred the property to one sister of four siblings.  The Will provides for all 4 children.



Dalynne Singleton

Gourley Law Group

Snohomish Escrow

The Exchange Connection

1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091

Snohomish, WA 98291

360.568.5065

360.568.8092  fax

dalynne at glgmail.com<mailto:dalynne at glgmail.com>

Website:  www.glglawgroup.com<http://www.glglawgroup.com/>

Attorney/client meetings will be handled by teleconference or virtually whenever possible.  If you would like to set a telephone conference, zoom, Microsoft teams or in person meeting, please call or email my paralegal theresa at glgmail.com, angelina at glgmail.com<mailto:theresa at glgmail.com,%20angelina at glgmail.com> or dominika at glgmail.com<mailto:dominika at glgmail.com>.



LICENSED IN WASHINGTON

IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s).  Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message.  If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission, rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:46 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?



That is fascinating; I could see a creditor being able to contest for 2 years but have not heard the information below ? will be curious to see responses.



Diane J. Kiepe



Diane J. Kiepe

Douglas Eden

717 W. Sprague Ave.

Suite 1500

Spokane, WA  99201

djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>

509-455-5300



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?



A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.



RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?



Lynn Clare

Clare Law Firm, PLLC




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:40:46 -0800
From: Carl Gay <carl at greenawaylawfirm.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?
Message-ID: <00eb01d94196$ed574680$c805d380$@greenawaylawfirm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Affirms my general rule to advise clients against using the transfer on death deed as a substitute for a personal representative deed in a probate.

 

CARL LLOYD GAY

 

Non nobis solum nati sumus

     ?Not unto ourselves alone are we born? 

           ~the motto of Willamette University~

             

GREENAWAY, GAY, MEDINA & MYERS

Attorneys and Counselors at Law                     

734 East First Street       Suite A

Port Angeles, Washington   98362

Email                       <mailto:carl at greenawaylawfirm.com> carl at greenawaylawfirm.com

Telephone                (360) 452-3323

Facsimile                  (360) 452-3724 

 

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:52 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

 

There is a two year sol, from death, for folks to sue a decedent?s estate; I assume that is what it?s about.

 

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Lynn Clare
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:37 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Can an Heir Contest a TODD?

 

A title company just told me that a TODD can be contested by an heir not named as a beneficiary for up to two years after the Grantor's death.

 

RCW 64.80 says nothing like this. Does anyone know if a TODD can be disputed by an heir not named as beneficiary?

 

Lynn Clare

Clare Law Firm, PLLC

 

 

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End of WSBAPT Digest, Vol 101, Issue 17
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