[WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit

[Philip N. Jones]

I agree with Mark.  In the article that Jim Cartwright and I wrote, we list all the various things the lawyer can do to help ensure that the will is going to be valid and enforceable after death.  More importantly, we list them in the order of effectiveness.  Number 1 is to carefully document your interactions with the testator.  Which is to say that your file should carefully state what your client told you she wanted, and also states what you told her what her will would do.  She does not need to understand the intricacies of QTIP elections (although it would be nice if she did), but she needs to understand who the beneficiaries are and how/when they will be receiving their inheritances.  A well-documented file is the first line of defense.  Very hard to beat.  We owe that to our clients.
Phil Jones

Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500
Portland, OR 97204
pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>
(503) 226-1371 - office
(503) 853-1482 - cell
(503) 226-3574 - fax

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Mark Anderson
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 9:37 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit

Our obligation kicks in at the drafting and review stage, to explain in clear terms the effect of every portion of the will that is being prepared for them.  If the client ultimately says "I just signed with the attorney gave me," then we haven't done our job correctly.

Mark B. Anderson
ANDERSON LAW FIRM PLLC
821 Dock St  Ste 209  PMB 4-12
Tacoma, Washington 98402
+1 253-327-1750
+1 253-327-1751 (fax)
marka at mbaesq.com<mailto:marka at mbaesq.com>
www.mbaesq.com<http://www.mbaesq.com/>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: 08/18/2023 8:39 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit

Which reminds me: I doubt that very many clients understand complex wills, or even simple wills.  What is our obligation to ensure such understanding?

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 5:44 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit

A video is a very risky proposition.  It could easily backfire.  If the client is competent, it isn't needed.  If the client is less than competent, anything could happen.
Phil Jones

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Rebecca King <rebecca at nwelg.com<mailto:rebecca at nwelg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:40:41 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit


Your client also has the right to not participate in the interview.  From the Washington Law Help website (https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/aps-investigations-and-findings#:~:text=An%20APS%20investigator%20will%20make,bank%20and%20other%20financial%20documents):



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Warmest regards,

Rebecca King

Attorney



Northwest Elder Law Group

2150 N. 107th Street, Suite 501

Seattle, WA 98133

Main: (206) 937-6102

Direct Line and Fax: (206) 866-6544



Providing Services in Elder Law



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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:24 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit



Got it.  Thank you.





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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:23 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit



More than ten years ago, Jim Cartwright and I wrote an article on how to take steps during the planning process to avoid will contests after the client dies.  The article was written under Oregon law, but I believe it is still valid and much of it would apply to the situation described in this string.  Here is the link to that article:



Up Time Technology has detected a possible fraud attempt from "estateplanning.osbar.org" claiming to be Est_2011Oct.pdf (osbar.org)<https://estateplanning.osbar.org/files/2015/05/Est_2011Oct.pdf>



If the link doesn't work, just run a search on the Oregon State Bar Estate Planning and Administration Section Newsletter, October 2011 issue.  I don't think you need to be a member of the OSB to access it.



Phil Jones



Philip N. Jones

Duffy Kekel LLP

900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500

Portland, OR 97204

pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>

(503) 226-1371 - office

(503) 853-1482 - cell

(503) 226-3574 - fax



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:07 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit



Thanks to all who respond, on and off-line.





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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit



That's a tough question.

If you are not in the room, your client might say something odd.

If you are in the room, APS might think you are a Svengali working on behalf of the evil wife.

Perhaps you should talk to the APS person first and get a sense of how professional/reasonable the APS person is.  If they seem OK, stay out.

Very hard to say.

Do you also represent the wife?  I hope not.

Phil Jones



Philip N. Jones

Duffy Kekel LLP

900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500

Portland, OR 97204

pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>

(503) 226-1371 - office

(503) 853-1482 - cell

(503) 226-3574 - fax



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:37 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Eminent Adult Protective Services Visit



Listmates:  Waaaay out of my wheel house.  Recently remarried elderly client meets with me to change his estate planning.  He wants to provide for his new wife (not everything, just a portion of his estate).  Adult children from a previous marriage (and trust babies) from CA have called the local Adult Protective Services and APS want to talk to my client (APS left a business card on my client's front door last night).  Trust babies have an attorney in CA who argues to me that some documents are forged and that my client is senile and that the new wife is taking advantage of my client.  I personally feel the client is competent.  My initial reaction is for the client to meet with APS and answer whatever questions APS has.  APS will probably want to interview my client without the new spouse in the room.  Should I be in the room?





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