[WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

[Roger Hawkes]

As I see it, the CIR claims are inchoate; neither knows what they own until a court declares it; so conflict waiver is more complex, methinks.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Joshua McKarcher
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 1:53 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

Hmmm. I better test myself here: An unmarried couple doing joint estate planning is forming a joint representation no different than a married couple, or two business partners . . . right? No secrets, and if they fight and can't solve it, they both lose you.

This is not a pre-nup; it's two people planning together. You can't keep secrets of Client 1 from Client 2 (which I bring up right after saying "Hello" in my conference room, before I care if they're married or not), etc., but otherwise, I'm not sure I follow what conflicts there are here.

Aside from that, however, here this couple seems probably very likely to have a CIR that would indeed produce "spousal-heirship-like results" after the death of one of them. But by planning they will make that complication largely irrelevant by doing it in wills or a trust. I think?

And they will have the benefit of lifetime powers for finances and health care, which could be unpleasant surprises for them if certain family "disapprove." (The pre-Obergefell same-sex couple problem.)

At most you may wish to ask them if they want the documents (if it gives property to the other of them) auto-revoked upon physical separation or "something" equivalent to legal separation or divorce. (I have no idea if Washington allows CIRs to be dissolved by a court filing like a legal separation or divorce. I'm just sitting here realizing I've never had the situation present itself.)

Good luck!

Best, Josh

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 2:18 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

Yes separate estate plans work; waiver of conflicts is harder because no one really knows what they 'own'.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:02 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

I received a call by a man who wants to do estate planning for him and his wife of thirty years.  Prior kids on both sides.  At the end of the call setting the appointment, he sort of chuckled and said "Well, I just call her my wife.  We never married."  Uh-oh.  So, if memory serves me, I don't think you can inherit under a CIR.  So, do I just prepare estate plans for them as if they are separate people?  Is this a conflict that I can even "disclose and waive" around?  Rumor is that the man was hesitant in even going to an attorney.  Any advice would be great.


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