[WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

Mon Sep 12 13:59:53 PDT 2022

I realize that I am on old guy, but my advice here is “run Forrest run”……………

This has too many traps and is the amount you get paid really worth the
risk?

Sincerely,

Tom

Thomas J. Westbrook

Attorney at Law

324 West Bay Drive NW, Suite 201

Olympia, WA 98502

(360) 866-4000 phone

(360) 866--3832 fax

www.buddbaylaw.com

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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Joshua McKarcher
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 1:53 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

Hmmm. I better test myself here: An unmarried couple doing joint estate
planning is forming a joint representation no different than a married
couple, or two business partners . . . right? No secrets, and if they fight
and can’t solve it, they both lose you.

This is not a pre-nup; it’s two people planning together. You can’t keep
secrets of Client 1 from Client 2 (which I bring up right after saying
“Hello” in my conference room, before I care if they’re married or not),
etc., but otherwise, I’m not sure I follow what conflicts there are here.

Aside from that, however, here this couple seems probably very likely to
have a CIR that would indeed produce “spousal-heirship-like results” after
the death of one of them. But by planning they will make that complication
largely irrelevant by doing it in wills or a trust. I think?

And they will have the benefit of lifetime powers for finances and health
care, which could be unpleasant surprises for them if certain family
“disapprove.” (The pre-*Obergefell* same-sex couple problem.)

At most you may wish to ask them if they want the documents (if it gives
property to the other of them) auto-revoked upon physical separation or
“something” equivalent to legal separation or divorce. (I have no idea if
Washington allows CIRs to be dissolved by a court filing like a legal
separation or divorce. I’m just sitting here realizing I’ve never had the
situation present itself.)

Good luck!

Best, Josh

*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Roger Hawkes
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 2:18 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

Yes separate estate plans work; waiver of conflicts is harder because no
one really knows what they ‘own’.

*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Paul Neumiller
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 10:02 AM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* [WSBAPT] Long Term CIR

I received a call by a man who wants to do estate planning for him and his
wife of thirty years.  Prior kids on both sides.  At the end of the call
setting the appointment, he sort of chuckled and said “Well, I just call
her my wife.  We never married.”  Uh-oh.  So, if memory serves me, I don’t
think you can inherit under a CIR.  So, do I just prepare estate plans for
them as if they are separate people?  Is this a conflict that I can even
“disclose and waive” around?  Rumor is that the man was hesitant in even
going to an attorney.  Any advice would be great.

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