[WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

[Marcus J. Fry]

Take a look at the Taufen v. Kirpes case, 155 Wash.App. 598 (Div. 3 2010).  Despite this decision, I still encounter bank tellers telling clients to check the joint owner with ROS box when a person simply wants to grant access to someone to assist in paying bills, but not for the intention of inheriting the funds in the account at death.  I should note the box does not explain the legal implications of the choice.  Might be the exact situation for GF.  Could file a declaratory action against GF.

-Marcus


Marcus J. Fry
Attorney | Witherspoon * Kelley
mjf at witherspoonkelley.com<mailto:mjf at witherspoonkelley.com> | Attorney Profile<https://www.witherspoonkelley.com/marcus-j-fry> | vCard<https://www.witherspoonkelley.com/s/mfj.vcf>

[cid:WK-Email-Logo_8ac8613e-356a-401d-bc99-22b12b819f24.png]

222 N. 3rd Street
Yakima, WA 98901
(509) 248-7220 (office)
(509) 575-1883 (fax)
witherspoonkelley.com


Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email and any accompanying attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the intended recipient and may be confidential and/or privileged. If any reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, unauthorized use, disclosure or copying is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email, and delete the original message and all copies from your system. Thank you.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 4:32 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

I don't think it's just a difficulty with evidence, though perhaps that was a factor considered in drafting the controlling statute. The statute dictates unequivocally that it's the account agreement that determines survivorship, unless there was a provable contrary intent at the time the agreement was entered. Once it's entered, I think the parties are assumed to know that's what they agreed to, and as a policy matter I don't think the legislature or the banks want to get into a conceptual dispute about "which" dollars were "intended" to be paid to the survivor. It's the whole account no matter the source of the deposit made by the account holders, and no matter when before death the money was deposited. Subject to a superwill under Ch. 11.11 RCW, anyway.

As to "why," well, I think it's really just because that's the way the statute reads. Certainly a different rule could have been enacted, that parsed more carefully intent as to each chunk of money. But that clearly ain't how it works under the existing statute. And we all know that commingling separate property funds with community funds is a fine way to destroy the separate character. (Not that cp is necessarily controlling here anyway, since we're talking JTWROS that could be between two unrelated persons.)

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 3:59 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

Agreed, due to evidence difficulty.  But I am pretty certain this occurs in many cases: one community member inherits or otherwise gets a separate chunk and deposits in a 'joint account' not intending to convert it to jtwros but simply as convenient.  Assuming there is ample proof of that intent, why should it be inherited by the spouse or be taken as part of a marital settlement??

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 2:35 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

Not relevant. The statute clearly states that intent at formation of the JTWROS account is the relevant timeframe for any evidence attempting to contradict the ROS.

I think this makes sense. You can't open a joint account with the intention "money in this account goes to the survivor" and then later on deposit some money and think, "except for this money."

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 2:19 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

And what about intentions at the times of deposits?

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:49 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

Unfortunately it's not a separate property issue. It was his money during life; the account designation of JTWROS makes it her money automatically after his death, "unless there is clear and convincing evidence of a contrary intent at the time the account was created." Which is a virtually impossible standard; who has evidence of that time they created the account, beyond perhaps the document signed with the bank?
RCW 30A.22.100<https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=30A.22&full=true#30A.22.100>(3).

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:Jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:27 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

But what if I can prove the monies in the account were the decedent's separate property, i.e, earnings and an inheritance from his mother?

W. Jeff Davis
BELL & DAVIS PLLC
P.O. Box 510
720 E. Washington Street, Suite 105
Sequim WA 98382
Phone: (360) 683.1129
Fax: (360) 683.1258
email: jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
https://link.edgepilot.com/s/f63d5627/NCIUtjhW8E2d0ub5xxmkcA?u=http://www.bellanddavispllc.com/

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at info at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:info at bellanddavispllc.com>  or call 360.683.1129.


From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:22 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

It's a non-probate asset so Estate doesn't have an immediate right to the funds. If there is a basis for imposing a portion of Estate expenses on the non-probate asset, there might be a right. See RCW 11.10.040<https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.10&full=true#11.10.040> and that RCW Chapter generally, and RCW 11.18.200<https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.18.200>.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:Jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:02 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Joint Account with no Surviving Joint Owner

Listmates:

At time of death, decedent had a joint bank account with gf. Its been over six months and gf cannot now be found.  Bank says estate can't access the account.  Is there anyway for estate to get at account, or is the money going to the State?

Jeff Davis

W. Jeff Davis
BELL & DAVIS PLLC
P.O. Box 510
720 E. Washington Street, Suite 105
Sequim WA 98382
Phone: (360) 683.1129
Fax: (360) 683.1258
email: jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
https://link.edgepilot.com/s/f63d5627/NCIUtjhW8E2d0ub5xxmkcA?u=http://www.bellanddavispllc.com/

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at info at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:info at bellanddavispllc.com>  or call 360.683.1129.




Links contained in this email have been replaced by Link Protection. If you click on a link, it will be analyzed for known threats before allowing you to proceed.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20220602/5cea35a4/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: WK-Email-Logo_8ac8613e-356a-401d-bc99-22b12b819f24.png
Type: image/png
Size: 7508 bytes
Desc: WK-Email-Logo_8ac8613e-356a-401d-bc99-22b12b819f24.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20220602/5cea35a4/WK-Email-Logo_8ac8613e-356a-401d-bc99-22b12b819f24.png>