[WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

[Roger Hawkes]

I believe I advocated a probate in response to this scenario; for the same reasons  you have identified.  Probate is not hard or expensive, unless there is good reason for it to be hard and expensive.

Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sky Valley Law
For incoming mail: Box 351, Sultan 98294
For in person visits: 423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294
Or other places to be arranged
206 367 5000
360 799 6438
Fax: 206 367 4005

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Joshua McKarcher
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:32 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

But, again, the debate doesn't matter if you cut the client's risk significantly by obtaining an adjudication of intestacy that states the spouse is 100% heir. If the CPA is VALID, great, the two parcels of real property are non-probate assets (for whatever it matters). If the CPA is NOT valid for whatever reason, well, after 4 months from the adjudication, it's STILL spouse's property.

Perhaps it's because I started my career representing creditors in Chapter 11 corporate bankruptcies in DC/NYC during the 2008-onward financial crisis, and so have the bias of desiring finality, but I think clients rely on us to minimize their risk and cut off claim timeframes - or at LEAST offer them the option and the knowledge of what the difference is between just recording the CPA and crossing your fingers with the greedy step-kids vs. doing the above, which is not a probate but still requires the step-kids to put up or shut up within 4 months. It's a great statute that buys peace in 4 months vs. [other unknown timeframe in a given situation].

Best, Josh

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:57 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

I just meant there is no mention of a home in the info I see.

Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sky Valley Law
For incoming mail: Box 351, Sultan 98294
For in person visits: 423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294
Or other places to be arranged
206 367 5000
360 799 6438
Fax: 206 367 4005

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Stephen Brandli
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:21 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

RCW 11.02.005(10): ". . .  'Nonprobate asset' includes . . . a right or interest passing under . . . a community property agreement . . . ."  But maybe I'm missing something.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:11 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

It might be; I don't see facts that warrant such a conclusion.

Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sky Valley Law
For incoming mail: Box 351, Sultan 98294
For in person visits: 423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294
Or other places to be arranged
206 367 5000
360 799 6438
Fax: 206 367 4005

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Stephen Brandli
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 5:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

Except that the house is a nonprobate asset, right?

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 3:02 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

I recommend a probate with notice to all kids and the world.  Forces stepkids to put up or shut up and forces creditors to show up or hold their thoughts.

Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sky Valley Law
For incoming mail: Box 351, Sultan 98294
For in person visits: 423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294
Or other places to be arranged
206 367 5000
360 799 6438
Fax: 206 367 4005

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 2:41 PM
To: wsbar trust <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] CPA and affid. vs probate

Is there an argument that doing a probate (letters of Adm) could be better for surviving spouse rather than simply recording the CPA and a death certificate and accompanying affidavit to clear title because of existence of CPA?  This client has community real property in two counties.  No other assets need help, unlikely there will be any creditors, there are children of each spouse and no children in common, and there is no Will.
Joshua F. Grant
[advocates]
P. O. Box 619
Wilbur, WA 99185
509 647 5578
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