[WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8

[msafren at jennylinglaw.com]

Hi Lisa,

 

I assist client with entity selection and entity formation.   I would be happy to assist.  

 

Warmest regards,

Michael S. Safren, Esq. 
Attorney at Law 

14900 Interurban Ave. S., Ste. 280 | Seattle, WA 98168 
11900 NE 1st St., Bldg. G - Ste. 300 |  Bellevue, WA 98005 
P: (206) 859-5098 | E: msafren at jennylinglaw.com <mailto:msafren at jennylinglaw.com>  
www.jennylinglaw.com <http://www.jennylinglaw.com/>  | facebook.com/jennylinglaw/ <http://www.facebook.com/jennylinglaw/>  

 


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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lisa Chiang
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 8:38 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8

 

Hi all,

 

More details:  seeking LLC formation attorney for a small business.  Will forward all names to PC.  Thank you in advance, Lisa

 

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 7:23 AM Lisa Chiang <feesimple7 at gmail.com <mailto:feesimple7 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Seeking tax attorney. Not too many details yet, i.e. personal, business, estate or ???.  Feel free to reply to me on or offlist.  Thank you in advance.  

 

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 12:01 PM <wsbapt-request at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-request at lists.wsbarppt.com> > wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Solvency unknown when opening probate (Lovie Bernardi)
   2. Re: Solvency unknown when opening probate (Elizabeth Bateman)
   3. Re: Solvency unknown when opening probate (Eric Nelsen)
   4. Re: Solvency unknown when opening probate (Heather de Vrieze)
   5. Transfer of interest in tribal land to living trust? (Laura Latta)
   6. Self-Settled SNT Question (David Faber)
   7. Insolvent decedent and IRS (Margaret Delp)
   8. Re: Insolvent decedent and IRS (Martin)
   9. Re: Insolvent decedent and IRS (sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> )
  10. Re: Self-Settled SNT Question (sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> )
  11. referral re GST issue (Shannon Jones)
  12. Directed Trusts (Christopher Neil)
  13. Looking for the will of Rick Poler (Steve King)
  14. Re: Insolvent decedent and IRS (Margaret Delp)
  15. Re: Insolvent decedent and IRS (Martin)
  16. Re: Self-Settled SNT Question (David Faber)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:30:25 +0000
From: Lovie Bernardi <lovie at fb-lawfirm.com <mailto:lovie at fb-lawfirm.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate
Message-ID:
        <MWHPR19MB121566FD86CFAFE9EBF41CC88F6D9 at MWHPR19MB1215.namprd19.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR19MB121566FD86CFAFE9EBF41CC88F6D9 at MWHPR19MB1215.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm sending this question out again:

I am preparing pleadings to open a probate for someone who did only online banking, so no paper statements have been found. We know that accounts existed, but not their value. The decedent did not own real estate, so we will not know about their assets until letters testamentary are issued. My question is: how do I address solvency in the petition? My inclination is to tell the court we will not know the extent of the assets until letters are issued, ask for a non-intervention probate and indicate that the court will be informed if the estate is insolvent. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Lovie


Lovie L. Bernardi
Flaherty & Bernardi, PLLC
3600 15th Avenue West #205
Seattle, WA  98119
(206) 682-2616

lovie at fb-lawfirm.com <mailto:lovie at fb-lawfirm.com> <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com> >
http://fb-lawfirm.com<http://sbfirm.com/>

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:43:53 +0000
From: Elizabeth Bateman <Elizabeth at batemanlawgroup.com <mailto:Elizabeth at batemanlawgroup.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate
Message-ID:
        <SJ0PR06MB84082D96532E0C0BE39C7016A06D9 at SJ0PR06MB8408.namprd06.prod.outlook.com <mailto:SJ0PR06MB84082D96532E0C0BE39C7016A06D9 at SJ0PR06MB8408.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> >

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If you truly have no idea, you won't be able to ask the Court for nonintervention powers until you have a better idea of what the extent of the assets and debts are.  The Court is not going to want to give them and then expect you to come back if they should be taken away.  You can tell the Court that you are reserving the issue of solvency/nonintervention powers until more is known and petition for a determination of solvency/grant of nonintervention powers later if it becomes clear after you get access to the accounts that the estate is solvent.  I would specifically include in the order authority to access/deal with the decedent's bank accounts.

Elizabeth G. Bateman
Associate Attorney
Admitted in Washington and Minnesota
Bateman Law Group, PLLC
900 SW 16th Street, Suite 120
Renton, WA 98057
Office: (206) 224-0900
Cell: (425) 444-9946
Website: www.batemanlawgroup.com<http://www.batemanlawgroup.com/>

This email is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Sections 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. This information is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this email message in error, please notify the sender via email or by telephone at (206) 224-0900.



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Lovie Bernardi
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 12:30 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate

I'm sending this question out again:

I am preparing pleadings to open a probate for someone who did only online banking, so no paper statements have been found. We know that accounts existed, but not their value. The decedent did not own real estate, so we will not know about their assets until letters testamentary are issued. My question is: how do I address solvency in the petition? My inclination is to tell the court we will not know the extent of the assets until letters are issued, ask for a non-intervention probate and indicate that the court will be informed if the estate is insolvent. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Lovie


Lovie L. Bernardi
Flaherty & Bernardi, PLLC
3600 15th Avenue West #205
Seattle, WA  98119
(206) 682-2616

lovie at fb-lawfirm.com <mailto:lovie at fb-lawfirm.com> <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com> >
http://fb-lawfirm.com<http://sbfirm.com/>

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:45:41 +0000
From: Eric Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate
Message-ID:
        <098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E8C81B6 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local <mailto:098D0346993E6A48B0D5F184C0AB002E8C81B6 at SBS2011.sayrelawoffices.local> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think you need a CR 11 basis to assert solvency and get NPs, so you have to know something that meets that standard. That can be less than knowing exact balances but I think it has to be more than a guess. If the PR truly knows nothing about the decedent's assets and debts on which to base a solvency determination, I think you can only petition for appointment without a request for NPs, then get the bank statements and petition later for adjudication of solvency and NPs.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Lovie Bernardi
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 12:30 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate

I'm sending this question out again:

I am preparing pleadings to open a probate for someone who did only online banking, so no paper statements have been found. We know that accounts existed, but not their value. The decedent did not own real estate, so we will not know about their assets until letters testamentary are issued. My question is: how do I address solvency in the petition? My inclination is to tell the court we will not know the extent of the assets until letters are issued, ask for a non-intervention probate and indicate that the court will be informed if the estate is insolvent. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Lovie


Lovie L. Bernardi
Flaherty & Bernardi, PLLC
3600 15th Avenue West #205
Seattle, WA  98119
(206) 682-2616

lovie at fb-lawfirm.com <mailto:lovie at fb-lawfirm.com> <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com> >
http://fb-lawfirm.com<http://sbfirm.com/>

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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:48:23 +0000
From: Heather de Vrieze <heatherd at westseattlelaw.com <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate
Message-ID:
        <MW3PR22MB210726390AC5D841F23C37AEA76D9 at MW3PR22MB2107.namprd22.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MW3PR22MB210726390AC5D841F23C37AEA76D9 at MW3PR22MB2107.namprd22.prod.outlook.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Either start of simply seeking appointment, gather enough information to go back for Order of Solvency and NPs, or find something to explain to the Court your belief that the estate is solvent with a clear acknowledgement that if anything changes that assessment, you will provide proper notice to all parties and the Court.

Heather

Heather S. de Vrieze
Attorney-at-Law
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D7EA9F.8C7AD9C0]
3909 California Avenue SW
Seattle, WA 98116-3705
(206)938-5500
heatherd at westseattlelaw.com <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com <mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> >
www.westseattlelaw.com <http://www.westseattlelaw.com> <http://www.westseattlelaw.com/>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:   [FB Logo] <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Lovie Bernardi
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 12:30 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Solvency unknown when opening probate

I'm sending this question out again:

I am preparing pleadings to open a probate for someone who did only online banking, so no paper statements have been found. We know that accounts existed, but not their value. The decedent did not own real estate, so we will not know about their assets until letters testamentary are issued. My question is: how do I address solvency in the petition? My inclination is to tell the court we will not know the extent of the assets until letters are issued, ask for a non-intervention probate and indicate that the court will be informed if the estate is insolvent. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Lovie


Lovie L. Bernardi
Flaherty & Bernardi, PLLC
3600 15th Avenue West #205
Seattle, WA  98119
(206) 682-2616

lovie at fb-lawfirm.com <mailto:lovie at fb-lawfirm.com> <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com <mailto:joni at sbfirm.com> >
http://fb-lawfirm.com<http://sbfirm.com/>

**********
This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise have received this message in error, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, discard any paper copies and delete all electronic files of the message.  Circular 230 Notice:  This communication may not be used by you or any other person or entity for the purpose of avoiding any federal tax penalties.

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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:03:07 -0800
From: Laura Latta <laura at lauralatta.com <mailto:laura at lauralatta.com> >
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Transfer of interest in tribal land to living trust?
Message-ID:
        <CAFBiugytPjKjdC1+iVfB-Rv=1R3P62Pf2b1qRL_SR9cXN=xjgA at mail.gmail.com <mailto:xjgA at mail.gmail.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Listmates,
Does anyone have experience with assigning (or otherwise transferring) a
lease interest in tribal land to a living trust and would be willing to
talk briefly? I'm trying to discern if this is a standard assignment or may
require a referral to an attorney with expertise in tribal law. Thank you
in advance for your consideration of this question.
Warmly,
Laura


*Laura LattaLaw Office of Laura Latta PLLC*

she/her

Phone (206) 841-2344

www.LauraLatta.com <http://www.LauraLatta.com> 

PO Box 82356

Kenmore, WA 98028



*NOTICE:  This communication may contain privileged or other confidential
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replying to this email and immediately delete the message and any
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:06:40 -0800
From: David Faber <david at faberfeinson.com <mailto:david at faberfeinson.com> >
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Self-Settled SNT Question
Message-ID:
        <CAKkD=wh7J4RatGm6Zq7d3h-Lfp2U4b9PQ0pAYiuHxNDwVq1ygw at mail.gmail.com <mailto:wh7J4RatGm6Zq7d3h-Lfp2U4b9PQ0pAYiuHxNDwVq1ygw at mail.gmail.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

(C)lient's (D)aughter is a disabled person. D inherited ~$100k in
securities about 10-15 years ago and C worked with another attorney to
establish a self-settled special/supplemental needs trust (SNT) for the
securities at that time so that D could continue to receive public
benefits. C owns the house that D lives, all under C's revocable living
trust (that, at C's death, will fund a separate SNT created for D that is
not subject to the payback provision and has other residuary
beneficiaries). D's house now is in need of some substantial work (the roof
needs replacing). C is struggling to afford to pay for the repairs and
wants to take money out of the SNT to pay for it. My concern is that taking
money out of the SNT to provide for the upkeep of an asset owned by C would
be a disallowed use of the resources and, in the case of C's death, could
even subject some of C's assets to the payback provision in the existing
SNT.

My first question is: do I have the right of it or am I overthinking this?

My proposed course of action is to have a supplemental lease signed between
the SNT and C to charge the SNT some supplemental rent (D is currently
paying C rent from D's SSDI in the amount of about $350/month) to be
commensurate with market rent locally (probably an additional $400/month
wouldn't even begin to raise eyebrows in our current rental market), with
the rental agreement expressly finding that it is a supplemental expense
not covered by D's existing public benefits, thereby providing C with some
additional resources to pay for needed repairs on D's home.

My second question (presuming I am correct in my thinking in response to my
first question) is: does anyone with knowledge about self-settled SNTs
think this is a workable approach or do you have any other suggestions for
how to make this square?

Thank you.

Best,
David J. Faber
Faber Feinson PLLC
800 Polk Street, Suite B
Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110

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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:41:57 -0800
From: Margaret Delp <delp at whidbey.net <mailto:delp at whidbey.net> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
Message-ID: <34583D1D-D8E2-48D2-BAFB-348D327937E4 at whidbey.net <mailto:34583D1D-D8E2-48D2-BAFB-348D327937E4 at whidbey.net> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello everyone:

Client was DPOA agent for her elderly mother. Elderly mother had no assets, literally not a single cent to her name. While mother was still living, the IRS asserted that she owed the IRS $29,000. Client advocated for her mother with the IRS and got confirmation on telephone that no money was owed, apparently there had been some error or identify theft or something of that nature. Elderly mother then passes away. Client sends IRS the death certificate. IRS responds that client needs to send the Will and then sign some forms. Client has no intention of filing a probate. She will file the Will in Superior Court as a ?will only filing?. Does the client need to respond to the IRS at all? ?What forms would the IRS be asking her to sign? Any downside for client in doing nothing? We are looking for the least effort, no cost path.

Thanks,
Margaret



--

Law Office of Margaret Delp

Mailing Address: PO Box 292, Langley, WA 98260

Physical location: 2815 Howard Rd., Langley, WA, Second Floor

Phone: 360-579-4530

Fax: 360-512-3114

www.delp-law.com <http://www.delp-law.com> 





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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:32:09 -0800
From: "Martin" <msilver at wolfenet.com <mailto:msilver at wolfenet.com> >
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
Message-ID: <000701d7eb23$66406d40$32c147c0$@wolfenet.com <http://wolfenet.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Show me or someone the forms if you can.  IRS might want someone to sign a form 2848, power of attorney, otherwise I could not say unless I saw the forms or the letter of which IRS speaks.  2848 is odd because who would give the power of attorney?  A little odd, the 29K ?asserted? and then ?unasserted??





MARTIN SILVER, LLM TAXATION, NYU

ATTORNEY AT LAW



1420 ? Fifth Avenue, Suite 3000

Seattle, Washington 98101



Tel:  206-224-3461

Fax:  1-206-224-3459



Web:  http//silvertaxlaw.com <http://silvertaxlaw.com> 





THIS MESSAGE MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL OR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION.  IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT PLEASE IMMEDIATELY ADVISE THE SENDER BY REPLY EMAIL AND DELETE THE MESSAGE.  THANK YOU.  













From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  On Behalf Of Margaret Delp
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 4:42 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS



Hello everyone:

Client was DPOA agent for her elderly mother. Elderly mother had no assets, literally not a single cent to her name. While mother was still living, the IRS asserted that she owed the IRS $29,000. Client advocated for her mother with the IRS and got confirmation on telephone that no money was owed, apparently there had been some error or identify theft or something of that nature. Elderly mother then passes away. Client sends IRS the death certificate. IRS responds that client needs to send the Will and then sign some forms. Client has no intention of filing a probate. She will file the Will in Superior Court as a ?will only filing?. Does the client need to respond to the IRS at all?  What forms would the IRS be asking her to sign? Any downside for client in doing nothing? We are looking for the least effort, no cost path.

Thanks,
Margaret



--

Law Office of Margaret Delp

Mailing Address: PO Box 292, Langley, WA 98260

Physical location: 2815 Howard Rd., Langley, WA, Second Floor

Phone: 360-579-4530

Fax: 360-512-3114

www.delp-law.com <http://www.delp-law.com>  <http://www.delp-law.com> 





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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:48:41 -0800
From: <sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> >
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
Message-ID: <009d01d7eb81$e9679ff0$bc36dfd0$@sdonahuelaw.com <http://sdonahuelaw.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Can she sign for her mother?s estate without opening a probate?  I don?t think so. If she files a will only, there will be  no probate and no one authorized to sign on behalf of her mother?s estate.  I hesitate to say this but I don?t think she needs to or even should respond to the IRS at all.  She has no authority to deal with the IRS as I see it.



Other may disagree.





SUSAN DONAHUE

Law Office of Susan Donahue

125 West 2nd Avenue, Suite ?B?

P.O. Box 81

Twisp, WA 98856

(509) 996-5944 (phone)

(509) 362-9692 (fax)

 <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> > sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> 



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Margaret Delp
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 4:42 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS



Hello everyone:

Client was DPOA agent for her elderly mother. Elderly mother had no assets, literally not a single cent to her name. While mother was still living, the IRS asserted that she owed the IRS $29,000. Client advocated for her mother with the IRS and got confirmation on telephone that no money was owed, apparently there had been some error or identify theft or something of that nature. Elderly mother then passes away. Client sends IRS the death certificate. IRS responds that client needs to send the Will and then sign some forms. Client has no intention of filing a probate. She will file the Will in Superior Court as a ?will only filing?. Does the client need to respond to the IRS at all?  What forms would the IRS be asking her to sign? Any downside for client in doing nothing? We are looking for the least effort, no cost path.

Thanks,
Margaret



--

Law Office of Margaret Delp

Mailing Address: PO Box 292, Langley, WA 98260

Physical location: 2815 Howard Rd., Langley, WA, Second Floor

Phone: 360-579-4530

Fax: 360-512-3114

www.delp-law.com <http://www.delp-law.com>  <http://www.delp-law.com> 





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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:52:15 -0800
From: <sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> >
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Self-Settled SNT Question
Message-ID: <00a201d7eb82$68980cb0$39c82610$@sdonahuelaw.com <http://sdonahuelaw.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello David,



Depending upon the language of the SNT, the trustee can make a decision to pay additional rent in order to secure a suitable dwelling for the beneficiary.  That is what the SNT trust is for?to provide additional support for the beneficiary that is in the beneficiary?s best interest.  I would say that the trustee could make that determination and provide the extra rent.







SUSAN DONAHUE

Law Office of Susan Donahue

125 West 2nd Avenue, Suite ?B?

P.O. Box 81

Twisp, WA 98856

(509) 996-5944 (phone)

(509) 362-9692 (fax)

 <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> > sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> 



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of David Faber
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 2:07 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Self-Settled SNT Question



(C)lient's (D)aughter is a disabled person. D inherited ~$100k in securities about 10-15 years ago and C worked with another attorney to establish a self-settled special/supplemental needs trust (SNT) for the securities at that time so that D could continue to receive public benefits. C owns the house that D lives, all under C's revocable living trust (that, at C's death, will fund a separate SNT created for D that is not subject to the payback provision and has other residuary beneficiaries). D's house now is in need of some substantial work (the roof needs replacing). C is struggling to afford to pay for the repairs and wants to take money out of the SNT to pay for it. My concern is that taking money out of the SNT to provide for the upkeep of an asset owned by C would be a disallowed use of the resources and, in the case of C's death, could even subject some of C's assets to the payback provision in the existing SNT.



My first question is: do I have the right of it or am I overthinking this?



My proposed course of action is to have a supplemental lease signed between the SNT and C to charge the SNT some supplemental rent (D is currently paying C rent from D's SSDI in the amount of about $350/month) to be commensurate with market rent locally (probably an additional $400/month wouldn't even begin to raise eyebrows in our current rental market), with the rental agreement expressly finding that it is a supplemental expense not covered by D's existing public benefits, thereby providing C with some additional resources to pay for needed repairs on D's home. 



My second question (presuming I am correct in my thinking in response to my first question) is: does anyone with knowledge about self-settled SNTs think this is a workable approach or do you have any other suggestions for how to make this square?



Thank you.



Best,

David J. Faber

Faber Feinson PLLC

800 Polk Street, Suite B

Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110



*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL.  This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and destroy the copy you received.***

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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 16:35:13 +0000
From: Shannon Jones <shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com <mailto:shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] referral re GST issue
Message-ID:
        <MWHPR1201MB00469061A84E9AD1001FC214BC6E9 at MWHPR1201MB0046.namprd12.prod.outlook.com <mailto:MWHPR1201MB00469061A84E9AD1001FC214BC6E9 at MWHPR1201MB0046.namprd12.prod.outlook.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Looking for a Washington attorney to assist with a GST issue involving a corporate trustee in Chicago. Trust beneficiaries live in Washington. Issue has arisen in the context of resignation of current trustee and appointment of successor - Shannon

[cid:image001.png at 01D7EB45.59F5A2E0]
Shannon R. Jones | Attorney
Campbell Barnett PLLC
P: 253.848.3513| F: 253.845.4941
317 South Meridian
Puyallup, WA 98371
shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com <mailto:shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com> <mailto:shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com <mailto:shannonj at campbellbarnettlaw.com> >
campbellbarnettlaw.com <http://campbellbarnettlaw.com> <https://campbellbarnettlaw.com/>

This transmission contains confidential attorney-client communications and may not be disclosed to any person but the intended recipient(s).  If this matter is transmitted to you in error, please delete and notify the sender immediately.



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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 09:26:37 -0800
From: Christopher  Neil <chris.neil at neillaw.com <mailto:chris.neil at neillaw.com> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Directed Trusts
Message-ID: <AB5F100C-5BF9-48B1-9DA6-A89571C6CDDA at neillaw.com <mailto:AB5F100C-5BF9-48B1-9DA6-A89571C6CDDA at neillaw.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Anyone have experience using the new Directed Trust Act (RCW 11.98B) to add a ?Trust Protector? to an existing Testamentary Trust?  

I am working on a case 3rd-Party oversight of the Trustee would resolve concerns and make the existing trust well.  




Chris Neil | Attorney | Neil & Neil, P.S.
5302 Pacific Avenue,Tacoma,WA 98408 | Chris.Neil at NeilLaw.com <mailto:Chris.Neil at NeilLaw.com> 
(253)475-8600 | f:(253)473-5746
Just so you know: This email address is not monitored at all times. So, if your matter is urgent please phone my office.
Also, this message in not encrypted, therefore it may not be secure. This message and attachments is confidential, may contain information that is privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender at once by email or 253-475-8600 and delete this message completely from your information system. Further use, disclosure, or copying of information contained in this email is not authorized, and receipt by anyone other than the named recipient is not a waiver of any attorney-client, work product, or other applicable privilege; or other confidentiality protections.  Thank you. 









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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:46:30 +0000
From: Steve King <steve at talislawfirm.com <mailto:steve at talislawfirm.com> >
To: "wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> " <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Looking for the will of Rick Poler
Message-ID:
        <SA1PR17MB5173E7EEAC9DAD9F4F2E5D64CD6E9 at SA1PR17MB5173.namprd17.prod.outlook.com <mailto:SA1PR17MB5173E7EEAC9DAD9F4F2E5D64CD6E9 at SA1PR17MB5173.namprd17.prod.outlook.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Does anyone have any information regarding the will of Rick Poler?  It would have been prepared by a firm in Tacoma sometime in 2020 or 2021.

Thanks

Stephen R. King
steve at talislawfirm.com <mailto:steve at talislawfirm.com> <mailto:steve at talislawfirm.com <mailto:steve at talislawfirm.com> >

Talis Law PLLC
915 118 Avenue SE, Suite 360
Bellevue, WA 98005
Phone: (425) 943-9968
Fax: (425) 777-2097
talislawfirm.com <http://talislawfirm.com> <http://talislawfirm.com/>

[Facebook]<https://htmlsig.com/t/000001DJJQWC>  [LinkedIn] <https://htmlsig.com/t/000001DJK8H3>   [Maps] <https://htmlsig.com/t/000001DS1V0N>

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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 09:50:26 -0800
From: Margaret Delp <delp at whidbey.net <mailto:delp at whidbey.net> >
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
Message-ID: <5F4387D1-9BAD-4A19-A417-EE0A3D2DABE3 at whidbey.net <mailto:5F4387D1-9BAD-4A19-A417-EE0A3D2DABE3 at whidbey.net> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Does anyone see a downside to the daughter simply ignoring the IRS- not providing the will to them or anything else at this point? 

> On Dec 7, 2021, at 7:51 AM, sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com>  wrote:
> 
> ?
> Can she sign for her mother?s estate without opening a probate?  I don?t think so. If she files a will only, there will be  no probate and no one authorized to sign on behalf of her mother?s estate.  I hesitate to say this but I don?t think she needs to or even should respond to the IRS at all.  She has no authority to deal with the IRS as I see it.
>  
> Other may disagree.
>  
>  
> SUSAN DONAHUE
> Law Office of Susan Donahue
> 125 West 2nd Avenue, Suite ?B?
> P.O. Box 81
> Twisp, WA 98856
> (509) 996-5944 (phone)
> (509) 362-9692 (fax)
> sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> 
>  
> From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Margaret Delp
> Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 4:42 PM
> To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> Subject: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
>  
> Hello everyone:
> Client was DPOA agent for her elderly mother. Elderly mother had no assets, literally not a single cent to her name. While mother was still living, the IRS asserted that she owed the IRS $29,000. Client advocated for her mother with the IRS and got confirmation on telephone that no money was owed, apparently there had been some error or identify theft or something of that nature. Elderly mother then passes away. Client sends IRS the death certificate. IRS responds that client needs to send the Will and then sign some forms. Client has no intention of filing a probate. She will file the Will in Superior Court as a ?will only filing?. Does the client need to respond to the IRS at all?  What forms would the IRS be asking her to sign? Any downside for client in doing nothing? We are looking for the least effort, no cost path.
> Thanks,
> Margaret
>  
> --
> Law Office of Margaret Delp
> Mailing Address: PO Box 292, Langley, WA 98260
> Physical location: 2815 Howard Rd., Langley, WA, Second Floor
> Phone: 360-579-4530
> Fax: 360-512-3114
> www.delp-law.com <http://www.delp-law.com> 
>  
>  
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
> _______________________________________________
> WSBAPT mailing list
> WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com> 
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 10:32:05 -0800
From: "Martin" <msilver at wolfenet.com <mailto:msilver at wolfenet.com> >
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS
Message-ID: <004b01d7eb98$bcf1ab70$36d50250$@wolfenet.com <http://wolfenet.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The question is the probability of a lien on real property.  IF there is no or only a small probability then it matters not.  Just wait for the IRS to come up with a problem if they get around to it, of which the probability is very low if they are already doubts as to what this is all about.  



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  On Behalf Of Margaret Delp
Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 9:50 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS



Does anyone see a downside to the daughter simply ignoring the IRS- not providing the will to them or anything else at this point? 





On Dec 7, 2021, at 7:51 AM, sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com>  <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> >  wrote:

?

Can she sign for her mother?s estate without opening a probate?  I don?t think so. If she files a will only, there will be  no probate and no one authorized to sign on behalf of her mother?s estate.  I hesitate to say this but I don?t think she needs to or even should respond to the IRS at all.  She has no authority to deal with the IRS as I see it.



Other may disagree.





SUSAN DONAHUE

Law Office of Susan Donahue

125 West 2nd Avenue, Suite ?B?

P.O. Box 81

Twisp, WA 98856

(509) 996-5944 (phone)

(509) 362-9692 (fax)

 <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> > sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> 



From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> >  <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > > On Behalf Of Margaret Delp
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 4:42 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> > >
Subject: [WSBAPT] Insolvent decedent and IRS



Hello everyone:

Client was DPOA agent for her elderly mother. Elderly mother had no assets, literally not a single cent to her name. While mother was still living, the IRS asserted that she owed the IRS $29,000. Client advocated for her mother with the IRS and got confirmation on telephone that no money was owed, apparently there had been some error or identify theft or something of that nature. Elderly mother then passes away. Client sends IRS the death certificate. IRS responds that client needs to send the Will and then sign some forms. Client has no intention of filing a probate. She will file the Will in Superior Court as a ?will only filing?. Does the client need to respond to the IRS at all?  What forms would the IRS be asking her to sign? Any downside for client in doing nothing? We are looking for the least effort, no cost path.

Thanks,
Margaret



--

Law Office of Margaret Delp

Mailing Address: PO Box 292, Langley, WA 98260

Physical location: 2815 Howard Rd., Langley, WA, Second Floor

Phone: 360-579-4530

Fax: 360-512-3114

www.delp-law.com <http://www.delp-law.com>  <http://www.delp-law.com> 





***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
_______________________________________________
WSBAPT mailing list
WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com> > 
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 11:29:16 -0800
From: David Faber <david at faberfeinson.com <mailto:david at faberfeinson.com> >
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Self-Settled SNT Question
Message-ID:
        <CAKkD=wgt2FOLYm3iVJjvyJ+iprT4oqSKquQsKTGrnxMAuBL5_Q at mail.gmail.com <mailto:wgt2FOLYm3iVJjvyJ%2BiprT4oqSKquQsKTGrnxMAuBL5_Q at mail.gmail.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you Susan. We have also discovered that the beneficiary already has
surplus rent being provided by HUD, which, together with their roommate's
rent, appears to reach market rent for the area. I'm guessing that a
determination that extra rent is warranted in this scenario would raise
some eyebrows if investigated.

Best,
David J. Faber
Faber Feinson PLLC
800 Polk Street, Suite B
Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110

*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL.
This communication may contain privileged or other confidential
information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that
you have received this communication in error, please do not print,
copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also,
please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in
error, and destroy the copy you received.***


On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 7:54 AM <sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> > wrote:

> Hello David,
>
>
>
> Depending upon the language of the SNT, the trustee can make a decision to
> pay additional rent in order to secure a suitable dwelling for the
> beneficiary.  That is what the SNT trust is for?to provide additional
> support for the beneficiary that is in the beneficiary?s best interest.  I
> would say that the trustee could make that determination and provide the
> extra rent.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *SUSAN DONAHUE*
>
> Law Office of Susan Donahue
>
> 125 West 2nd Avenue, Suite ?B?
>
> P.O. Box 81
>
> Twisp, WA 98856
>
> (509) 996-5944 (phone)
>
> (509) 362-9692 (fax)
>
> sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com <mailto:sdonahue at sdonahuelaw.com> 
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > *On Behalf Of *David Faber
> *Sent:* Monday, December 6, 2021 2:07 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Self-Settled SNT Question
>
>
>
> (C)lient's (D)aughter is a disabled person. D inherited ~$100k in
> securities about 10-15 years ago and C worked with another attorney to
> establish a self-settled special/supplemental needs trust (SNT) for the
> securities at that time so that D could continue to receive public
> benefits. C owns the house that D lives, all under C's revocable living
> trust (that, at C's death, will fund a separate SNT created for D that is
> not subject to the payback provision and has other residuary
> beneficiaries). D's house now is in need of some substantial work (the roof
> needs replacing). C is struggling to afford to pay for the repairs and
> wants to take money out of the SNT to pay for it. My concern is that taking
> money out of the SNT to provide for the upkeep of an asset owned by C would
> be a disallowed use of the resources and, in the case of C's death, could
> even subject some of C's assets to the payback provision in the existing
> SNT.
>
>
>
> My first question is: do I have the right of it or am I overthinking this?
>
>
>
> My proposed course of action is to have a supplemental lease signed
> between the SNT and C to charge the SNT some supplemental rent (D is
> currently paying C rent from D's SSDI in the amount of about $350/month) to
> be commensurate with market rent locally (probably an additional $400/month
> wouldn't even begin to raise eyebrows in our current rental market), with
> the rental agreement expressly finding that it is a supplemental expense
> not covered by D's existing public benefits, thereby providing C with some
> additional resources to pay for needed repairs on D's home.
>
>
>
> My second question (presuming I am correct in my thinking in response to
> my first question) is: does anyone with knowledge about self-settled SNTs
> think this is a workable approach or do you have any other suggestions for
> how to make this square?
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> David J. Faber
>
> Faber Feinson PLLC
>
> 800 Polk Street, Suite B
>
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
> (360) 379-4110
>
>
>
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End of WSBAPT Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8
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