[WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Roger Hawkes
Roger at law-hawks.com
Tue Aug 10 16:00:34 PDT 2021
Thanks, for that Dalynne. The COA found a CIR in all but name, instead denoting it as an ‘equity relationship’ but approving the division of property the way it should have been done in a CIR. So it was the functional equivalent of a CIR even though one party was married. Clearly this court was looking for an ‘equitable’ result, i.e. a ‘fair’ result and found a way to do it without calling the relationship a CIR.
Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sultan Office: 423 Main (physical office)
Box 351, Sultan, WA 98294 (incoming mail)
Sultan, WA 98294
Phone: 206 367 5000; fax: 206 367 4005
Email: roger at law-hawks.com<mailto:roger at law-hawks.com>
Web site: www.hawkeslawfirm.com<http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com/>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 3:36 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Wow!
Diane J. Kiepe
Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA 99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Dalynne Singleton
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 2:11 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
I have seen a TEDRA petition with resulting Order when the domestic partner was married but also in a CIR at the time of his death. The married couple had been separated for more than 30 years.
You should look at:
In In re Meretricious Relationship of Long, 158 Wn. App. 919, 244 P.3d 26 (2010), Division III considered whether a committed intimate relationship could be created between two parties when
one of those parties was married to a third party. “…[S]everal factors are considered in determining the existence of an equity relationship. No one factor is determinative. Thus, [one party to the committed intimate
relationship] remaining married [to a third party] is a fact to consider, but it is not determinative.” Long at 925-6 (citations omitted).
Dalynne Singleton
Gourley Law Group
Snohomish Escrow
The Exchange Connection
1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
Snohomish, WA 98291
360.568.5065
360.568.8092 fax
dalynne at glgmail.com<mailto:dalynne at glgmail.com>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Kerry Richards
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 2:02 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Dear Bryce:
While I agree with your sentiments about defrauding the former spouse, (it is despicable to hide assets to the detriment of the other spouse) bear in mind that the person who sought to keep private the acquisition of the property, did use his property or rather income in purchasing the property. He actually did pay money for the real estate. The community owns all of the deceased spouse’s income when and while she earned it. Each member of the community has an undivided one half interest in the income. The CIR spouse used community income to purchase. The marital spouse may have a claim for some part of the acquisition at this point. Let all the transactions play themselves out and justice (equity) will be realized.
Yours truly,
Kerry A. Richards, Attorney
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The Law Offices of Michael W. Bugni & Associates, PLLC
11300 Roosevelt Way NE, Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98125
EMAIL: krichards at lawgate.net<mailto:krichards at lawgate.net>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Bryce Dille
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 1:25 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Thank you however if one wants to have property separate to avoid another spouse getting wind of it that person must live with that decision and can’t claim interest in it when it is advantageous to do so especially when that person has not paid nothing in obtaining it.
Bryce H. Dille
Dille Law, PLLC
2010 Caton Way SW Ste. 101
Olympia, WA 98502
Office: 360-350-0270
Cell: 253-579-5561
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Kerry Richards
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:57 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Dear Bryce:
No one fact should dominate in this analysis. I do think there is a case on that point. This is a matter that screams for consideration of all the facts and factors. Other issues to take into consideration are the issues of fraud (the effect of not having clean hands on the argument), where perhaps the spouse (assuming he is still married) would be in line to take a share of whatever the CIR partner obtained, and the Deadman’s Statute. Who is going to testify about what the decedent did or did not say in obtaining a mortgage? Not wanting to show up on title is not going to win the day, in my estimation. There are many circumstances where a bankrupt spouse declines to participate in the mortgage process as it will just end up in a denial of the mortgage by the lender. This does not mean the house or the underlying mortgage obligation are not community, however. Should the fraud result in the surviving CIR partner receiving nothing? Even if the survivor’s spouse does not enter into the contest? Perhaps.
These are my quite random thoughts Bryce. I hope they assist in your analysis.
Yours truly,
Kerry A. Richards, Attorney
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The Law Offices of Michael W. Bugni & Associates, PLLC
11300 Roosevelt Way NE, Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98125
EMAIL: krichards at lawgate.net<mailto:krichards at lawgate.net>
TEL: 206-365-5500
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Bryce Dille
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:19 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
In my case when asked the man stated he didn’t want title in his name as he was married to another woman and he didn’t want her to find out he had any assets and that’s why title was always taken in her name and her credit relied on because man did not want to show up on title I believe this makes it her separate property even under CIR holdings. Your thoughts
Bryce H. Dille
Dille Law, PLLC
2010 Caton Way SW Ste. 101
Olympia, WA 98502
Office: 360-350-0270
Cell: 253-579-5561
** Please note that I use the dictation feature of my iPhone and that sometimes everything I say does not get properly translated**
This transmission contains confidential attorney-client communications and may not be disclosed to any person but the intended recipient(s). If this matter is transmitted to you in error, please notify the sender immediately.
Business Entity Creation and Management, Business, Government and Tax Law, Real Estate and Land Use, Residential, Commercial and Condominium Development Real Estate and Commercial Transactions & Closings, Including Performing Services as IRS Section 1031 Exchange Facilitator Estate Planning, including Wills and Trusts, and Probate Administration Representation Homeowners/Condominium Association Real Estate Developments Real Property Foreclosures and Forfeitures.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Kerry Richards
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:31 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
List Mates:
Remember, when the CIR exists, there is no separate income from labor. Do not limit your analysis to the name on the title. Harry Cross (dating myself) long wrote about the basic Yesler presumption and the idea that all earnings and acquisitions during marriage (and now a CIR) are community in character. There is no separate credit when it is based upon that community labor. The acquisition of a house during the CIR would be a community acquisition unless there are documented separate sources for the down payment and purchase. In the facts described it sounds like this was just a common house purchase with a down payment (perhaps saved from earnings during the CIR), with a community checking account to which the community earnings were long deposited and then a mortgage, where community credit was extended to one of the persons in the CIR. That mortgage would be a community obligation as well, even though it was just in one person’s name. The name on the title, the name on the promissory note are not as relevant as other issues in forming the CIR and in establishing the community character of the acquisitions. Remember, there was a time when one of the spouses usually did not work outside the home and instead raised the family. There was never any income actually earned by the homemaker spouse. Community property laws were there to engender equity to the circumstances of joint community ownership. Marriage of Lindsey long ago overruled the Creasman v. Boyle. Those same principles are now applied to a CIR, as defined by the cases of Pennington v. Pennington and Chesterfield v. Nash.
Kerry A. Richards, Attorney
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EMAIL: krichards at lawgate.net<mailto:krichards at lawgate.net>
TEL: 206-365-5500
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Diane J. Kiepe
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:06 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Wow,
Seems like she took steps to keep things “separate” but without that plan in place it’s a crap shoot!
Diane J. Kiepe
Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA 99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 10:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Thirty years makes it seem pretty much like CIR. The length of relationship is important in finding a CIR.
Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Sultan Office: 423 Main (physical office)
Box 351, Sultan, WA 98294 (incoming mail)
Sultan, WA 98294
Phone: 206 367 5000; fax: 206 367 4005
Email: roger at law-hawks.com<mailto:roger at law-hawks.com>
Web site: www.hawkeslawfirm.com<http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com/>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Bryce Dille
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 10:49 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
I am litigating a matter now in which the individuals lived together for some 30+ years the deceased woman during that time Always had a decent job and title to our real estate was taken into her name and her credit was solely used to obtain any funds used to purchase or improve the real estate. The man never had any type of full-time employment but only odd jobs from time to time, never filed any tax returns never had a checking account and that the only money he earned was used to pay household expenses. It was a checking account but it was all in the name of the deceased woman in which she deposited her check unemployment and he never deposited any funds in that account. She did not have a will but did have two children and the man is now claiming at least a 50% interest in the propertyAfter we instituted an action to have him evictedFrom the resident that is in her name that they both were residing in at the time of her death. The trial court on a motion for summary judgment indicated that it would look at this similar to an accounting in a tenancy in common dispute As opposed to looking at it in a divorce setting some courts have indicated they would do because of a committed intimate relationship between the parties.
Bryce H. Dille
Dille Law, PLLC
Office: 360-350-0270
Cell: 253-579-5561
** Please note that I use the dictation feature of my iPhone and that sometimes everything I say does not get properly translated**
On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:55 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>> wrote:
CIR partner is definitely not an heir under intestacy. However, the division of CIR community-like property is not automatically 50-50: instead, the probate court must make a “fair and equitable” division of community-like property between the decedent and the surviving non-marital partner. However that split ends up, 50-50 or otherwise, you are correct that the decedent’s share goes by intestacy and the surviving non-marital partner retains their share free of the estate.
The cases are not clear on what division actually looks like. They imply that the division would be made applying the same factors as in divorce, but that really does not work. One of the main concerns in a divorce outcome is the resulting financial situation for each ex-spouse going forward, and obviously that does not apply for someone who is deceased. I have entertained the idea that, in a proper case, the "just and equitable" division of assets between the survivor and the decedent could be 100% to the survivor and 0% to the estate. That is not strictly speaking an "inheritance" but it would achieve an outcome similar to inheritance of community property. If it works.
Sincerely,
Eric
Eric C. Nelsen
Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA 98144-3909
206-625-0092
eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Natalie Kuehler
Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 3:21 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Is a CIR Partner an Heir for Intestacy Purposes?
Hello all,
If one partner in a committed intimate relationship dies without leaving a will, does the surviving partner stand in the shoes of a spouse for purposes of intestacy law and inherit all of the decadent’s estate? Or does the surviving partner only retain his or her one-half interest in property that is CIR/community-like property, but the deceased’s one-half interest in the property (i.e. the deceased’s estate) passes to surviving children, parents etc under intestacy laws?
I believe the answer is the later but am getting pushback.
Thank you!
Natalie N. Kuehler
KUEHLER & GRIM PLLC
PO Box 3059 – 1112 State Route 20
Winthrop, WA 98862
o: (509) 996-2832 x1 – c (509) 557-5769
www.kuehlergrim.com<http://www.kuehlergrim.com>
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