[WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

Tue Sep 24 17:03:32 PDT 2019

Thanks for sharing!

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Cyrus Field
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:52 PM
To: jeff at bellanddavispllc.com; 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I spoke with an attorney with the WSBA Ethics Hotline about the issue of turning over “word” versions of documents per former client’s demand. I was told it was an “interesting” issue  that she had not specifically come across-she offered the option of requesting an advisory opinion but said it takes a fair amount of time to get a response. Nevertheless, she noted that RPC 1.16 required that on termination of employment the attorney give the client all documents in file to which they were entitled, should they so desire, which obviously included original documents and drafts. However, she did not believe that included “word” versions. In fact, giving up such might inadvertently include information indicating the attorney drafted the documents or other metadata that might be privileged, much less helping facilitate client to do something they don’t fully understand. As a result, I’m comfortable telling former client I can’t and won’t give up “word” versions of the documents and he should take other immediate action to make sure his estate plan meets his current needs. Thanks all for the discussion, Cy

Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)
phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis St. Friday Harbor, WA
******************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail message, including attachments, may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender at cyfield at rockisland.com<mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com> and destroy or delete the original and any copies.

From: Cyrus Field [mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 2:35 PM
To: 'Cyrus Field'; 'jeff at bellanddavispllc.com'; 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: RE: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

FWIW, I just left a message with WSBA ethics hotline on this specific issue. Also reviewed RPC 1.15A(f), regarding safeguarding/returning client’s property and comment 5. Comment says rule applies to “original Wills”, which makes sense. By negative implication, I would argue it doesn’t apply to word versions. But we’ll see what the Bar says. More later …
Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)
phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis St. Friday Harbor, WA
******************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail message, including attachments, may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender at cyfield at rockisland.com<mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com> and destroy or delete the original and any copies.

From: Cyrus Field [mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 1:47 PM
To: 'jeff at bellanddavispllc.com'; 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: RE: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I can’t believe I just had this issue come up moments ago for the first time in nearly 30 years of practice (former client wants to make radical changes to EP, many potential red flags, likely requiring several home visits and objecting to what I thought was very reasonable mid 3 figure quote). I am extremely reluctant to give up word docs but neither do I want to commit some ethical violation. I am going to call the ethics hotline and will report back. Cy

Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)
phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis St. Friday Harbor, WA
******************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail message, including attachments, may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender at cyfield at rockisland.com<mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com> and destroy or delete the original and any copies.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:16 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I want to thank everyone for their comments.  I totally disagree with the WSBA position and would not follow it.  They aren’t paying my ever increasing malpractice premiums or dealing with clients who always want to get work for free.  If the bar really tries to take a position requiring release of word versions, we should take a stand and explain our reasoning, similar to having to explain to them when some flat fees are earned.

I will still send out drafts but by regular mail.  Not sending out drafts and receiving questions or needed corrections would really slow the process.

Thank you again.

Jeff Davis

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of nestor at pplsweb.com<mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 7:41 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

That doesn’t sound right.

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law
Licensed in Washington & Florida
Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Dewey Weddle
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 2:36 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I, too, am shocked at the WSBA's response.

While certainly the client is entitled to receive all of the documents in his or her file, it seems to me that providing hard copies of those documents should be all that is required.  If the client then wants to sit down and create Word documents from those hard copies, that is his or her business.  I never send out Word documents because they can be easily edited and then re-surface somewhere else.

Perhaps we should all go back to typewriters.

Best regards,

Dewey 

Law Office of Dewey W. Weddle, PLLC

909 7th Street

Anacortes, WA 98221

Telephone: 360-293-3600

Fax 360-293-3700

________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Diane J. Kiepe <DJKiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:DJKiepe at depdslaw.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:18 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

Stacey,

Thank you for your personal experience.  I am shocked by the bar’s response.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe

Douglas Eden

717 W. Sprague Ave.

Suite 1500

Spokane, WA  99201

djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>

509-455-5300

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Stacey Romberg
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:12 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

Please excuse me, because I have not read this entire thread so I may be saying something repetitive here.

Some years ago, I represented a client who turned out to be one of the most toxic individuals I have ever run across. As we concluded representation, he demanded Word versions of a variety of drafts. I wasn’t sure what to do about that, because they unquestionably were not final work product that I would have felt comfortable sending to another attorney, etc. So I called the WSBA Ethics Line. I was instructed that the work product belonged to the client since he (kind of / sort of) paid for it, and that if the client asked for Word documents – I needed to give it to him. So I provided the client with everything he requested, carefully caveating everything so that it was clear that these documents were drafts in every sense of the word. Since then, I have had this issue come up two or three times, in much less hostile settings. I’ve always complied with the client’s request.

[cid:image001.png at 01D5721E.F6BD63D0]

Stacey L. Romberg, Attorney at Law
10115 Greenwood Avenue N., PMB #275
Seattle, Washington 98133
Telephone: 206-784-5305
Facsimile: 206-789-8103
E-mail: info at staceyromberg.com<mailto:info at staceyromberg.com>
Web site: www.staceyromberg.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.staceyromberg.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535145279&sdata=Zrr0WQKY1GyKsUAj%2Brj1GS%2B8UZfMJ8%2FBuyWJvLHpG%2B8%3D&reserved=0>

Practice concentrated on estate planning, probate and business law.
Office Hours: Monday - Friday, 9:00 - 5:00. In-person appointments scheduled: Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.

[cid:image002.png at 01D5721E.F6BD63D0]<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FStaceyRombergAttorneyatLaw&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535155284&sdata=ICYqlrPoyKz9uMeBnuh53NiTRVr4AMbPAqlJAjT3NBA%3D&reserved=0>  [cid:image003.png at 01D5721E.F6BD63D0] <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FStaceyRomberg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535165295&sdata=SgJeWsRwfcDfVeJ8i%2BxdVx09PbGtPLva8SBLZkU7LWM%3D&reserved=0>   [cid:image004.png at 01D5721E.F6BD63D0] <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fstaceyromberg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535175300&sdata=x62GCCfmQs2w5t6LL4jyQ4%2Ff3wClRaBVkXvV4WL11ss%3D&reserved=0>

NOTICE
The contents of this message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, work product doctrine or other applicable protections. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this message in error, please notify the sender and promptly delete the message. Thank you for your assistance.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of nestor at pplsweb.com<mailto:nestor at pplsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:13 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>; 'Jeff Davis' <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I watermark my drafts with a big red “Draft” and password protect so the watermark cannot be removed.

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law

Licensed in Washington & Florida

Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:52 PM
To: Jeff Davis <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>>; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

When I started out on my own, I used to send drafts (even as PDF's) - but as a not-so-young, solo, I was quickly schooled in the ways of the dishonest.

As has been previously stated - even with a PDF - your work product may not be safe.  It is expressly written into my fee agreement that I will NOT send draft documents.  If someone wants me to ensure that I collected all of the appropriate information and spellings - I will send an email with just a list of names, addresses, a recitation of their words to me regarding their wishes but not in any usable format or with any of the other "magic" language that makes a Will, POA, Trust, etc. have its power.

If a draft is truly that important - there is a specific extra fee and the cost of printing and mailing.  I have stopped allowing someone the easy way to take my work product.  Now, if they want to try to OCR or just re-type then go ahead.

Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law

Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC

Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134

Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919

e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.Williams-RuthLaw.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535185311&sdata=kafx3%2F%2Bs564Innh7s1mC5VkRTMwOKn3KaluMHfN4zq8%3D&reserved=0> / facebook<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fbwrconsults&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535195322&sdata=rbQRx4hs3h9B1LhKucG2bvD0FoAbjeIhjjtgTho%2BRDo%3D&reserved=0> /

As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.Williams-RuthLaw.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535205327&sdata=s3EWQRdMsyRzNH9p88CnlHuWmnRZ11PgpgOWEsOxzJs%3D&reserved=0>

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:01 PM Jeff Davis <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>> wrote:

Listmates:

Recently I have had different clients request I provide them with a word version of my proposed demand letter, involving an easement issue, and trust agreement, respectively.  They wanted to redraft the letter and the other wanted to add things to the trust.  I declined to provide the word version.  One person got really nasty saying by not doing so violated RPC 1.4.  In all my years I have never allowed a client to draft letters or pleadings that I sign.  Have any of you faced this issue and how have you dealt with it?

Jeff Davis

W. Jeff Davis, Esq.

BELL & DAVIS PLLC
P.O. Box 510
Sequim WA 98382
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258
email: info at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:info at bellanddavispllc.com>
www.bellanddavispllc.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bellanddavispllc.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535215344&sdata=cpLmrn21nWD3HGEGQAlIH87S2vXjUNrehgKvUtu%2FXz0%3D&reserved=0>

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at info at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:info at bellanddavispllc.com>  or call 360.683.1129

***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
_______________________________________________
WSBAPT mailing list
WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.fsr.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fwsbapt&data=02%7C01%7C%7C08fa18ece4494f3ee2d108d73c5d7b82%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637044244535225343&sdata=THLPF7cBkeO7jiCf6RIAAPr%2FXK843Rzs50FqK0v4JU4%3D&reserved=0>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20190925/7adab51c/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 19011 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20190925/7adab51c/image001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2662 bytes
Desc: image002.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20190925/7adab51c/image002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.png
Type: image/png
Size: 6796 bytes
Desc: image003.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20190925/7adab51c/image003.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2898 bytes
Desc: image004.png
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20190925/7adab51c/image004.png>