[WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

Fri Sep 20 14:34:43 PDT 2019

FWIW, I just left a message with WSBA ethics hotline on this specific issue. Also reviewed RPC 1.15A(f), regarding safeguarding/returning client’s property and comment 5. Comment says rule applies to “original Wills”, which makes sense. By negative implication, I would argue it doesn’t apply to word versions. But we’ll see what the Bar says. More later … 

Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)

phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis St. Friday Harbor, WA

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From: Cyrus Field [mailto:cyfield at rockisland.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 1:47 PM
To: 'jeff at bellanddavispllc.com'; 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: RE: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I can’t believe I just had this issue come up moments ago for the first time in nearly 30 years of practice (former client wants to make radical changes to EP, many potential red flags, likely requiring several home visits and objecting to what I thought was very reasonable mid 3 figure quote). I am extremely reluctant to give up word docs but neither do I want to commit some ethical violation. I am going to call the ethics hotline and will report back. Cy

Cyrus W. Field, Attorney at Law (admitted in Washington and Oregon)

phone: 360-472-1223 Mail: POB 367, Shaw Island, WA 98286 Office: 640 Mullis St. Friday Harbor, WA

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:16 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I want to thank everyone for their comments.  I totally disagree with the WSBA position and would not follow it.  They aren’t paying my ever increasing malpractice premiums or dealing with clients who always want to get work for free.  If the bar really tries to take a position requiring release of word versions, we should take a stand and explain our reasoning, similar to having to explain to them when some flat fees are earned.

I will still send out drafts but by regular mail.  Not sending out drafts and receiving questions or needed corrections would really slow the process.  

Thank you again.

Jeff Davis

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of nestor at pplsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 7:41 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

That doesn’t sound right. 

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law

Licensed in Washington & Florida

Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Dewey Weddle
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 2:36 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I, too, am shocked at the WSBA's response.  

While certainly the client is entitled to receive all of the documents in his or her file, it seems to me that providing hard copies of those documents should be all that is required.  If the client then wants to sit down and create Word documents from those hard copies, that is his or her business.  I never send out Word documents because they can be easily edited and then re-surface somewhere else.

Perhaps we should all go back to typewriters.       

Best regards, 

Dewey 

Law Office of Dewey W. Weddle, PLLC

909 7th Street

Anacortes, WA 98221

Telephone: 360-293-3600 

Fax 360-293-3700 

  _____  

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Diane J. Kiepe <DJKiepe at depdslaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:18 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents 

Stacey,

Thank you for your personal experience.  I am shocked by the bar’s response.

Diane J. Kiepe

Diane J. Kiepe

Douglas Eden

717 W. Sprague Ave.

Suite 1500

Spokane, WA  99201

 <mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com> djkiepe at depdslaw.com

509-455-5300

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Stacey Romberg
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:12 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

Please excuse me, because I have not read this entire thread so I may be saying something repetitive here. 

Some years ago, I represented a client who turned out to be one of the most toxic individuals I have ever run across. As we concluded representation, he demanded Word versions of a variety of drafts. I wasn’t sure what to do about that, because they unquestionably were not final work product that I would have felt comfortable sending to another attorney, etc. So I called the WSBA Ethics Line. I was instructed that the work product belonged to the client since he (kind of / sort of) paid for it, and that if the client asked for Word documents – I needed to give it to him. So I provided the client with everything he requested, carefully caveating everything so that it was clear that these documents were drafts in every sense of the word. Since then, I have had this issue come up two or three times, in much less hostile settings. I’ve always complied with the client’s request.

Stacey L. Romberg, Attorney at Law
10115 Greenwood Avenue N., PMB #275
Seattle, Washington 98133
Telephone: 206-784-5305
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of nestor at pplsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:13 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>; 'Jeff Davis' <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

I watermark my drafts with a big red “Draft” and password protect so the watermark cannot be removed.

Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law

Licensed in Washington & Florida

Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary

ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:52 PM
To: Jeff Davis <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Providing Client with word version of draft demand letters/estate planning documents

When I started out on my own, I used to send drafts (even as PDF's) - but as a not-so-young, solo, I was quickly schooled in the ways of the dishonest.

As has been previously stated - even with a PDF - your work product may not be safe.  It is expressly written into my fee agreement that I will NOT send draft documents.  If someone wants me to ensure that I collected all of the appropriate information and spellings - I will send an email with just a list of names, addresses, a recitation of their words to me regarding their wishes but not in any usable format or with any of the other "magic" language that makes a Will, POA, Trust, etc. have its power. 

If a draft is truly that important - there is a specific extra fee and the cost of printing and mailing.  I have stopped allowing someone the easy way to take my work product.  Now, if they want to try to OCR or just re-type then go ahead. 

Brent Williams-Ruth 
Attorney-At-Law

Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC

Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134

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On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:01 PM Jeff Davis <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com> wrote:

Listmates:

Recently I have had different clients request I provide them with a word version of my proposed demand letter, involving an easement issue, and trust agreement, respectively.  They wanted to redraft the letter and the other wanted to add things to the trust.  I declined to provide the word version.  One person got really nasty saying by not doing so violated RPC 1.4.  In all my years I have never allowed a client to draft letters or pleadings that I sign.  Have any of you faced this issue and how have you dealt with it?

Jeff Davis

W. Jeff Davis, Esq.

BELL & DAVIS PLLC
P.O. Box 510
Sequim WA 98382
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129 
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258 
email: info at bellanddavispllc.com
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