[WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 63, Issue 2
Mary Anne Vance
maryanne at VanceLaw.com
Tue Dec 3 15:50:43 PST 2019
Jeff Crollard specializes in going after bad nursing homes.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: wsbapt-request at lists.wsbarppt.com
Date: 12/3/19 12:06 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: WSBAPT Digest, Vol 63, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. Partial Intestacy? (David Faber)
2. Local referral needed (nursing home neglect) (Candace Wilkerson)
3. Probate Estate (Anthony Vivenzio)
4. Possible to Reject a TOD? (Brent Williams-Ruth)
5. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Diane J. Kiepe)
6. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Philip N. Jones)
7. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Lewis, Amy C.)
8. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Marvin Benson)
9. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Philip N. Jones)
10. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Philip N. Jones)
11. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Tom Westbrook)
12. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Philip N. Jones)
13. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Heather de Vrieze)
14. Re: Possible to Reject a TOD? (Mike Winslow)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:34:53 -0800
From: David Faber <david at faberfeinson.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Partial Intestacy?
Message-ID:
<CAKkD=whnLF-UOEnzhM_3_oW89zwR3kXtvtTZxRp+U845S_BEhA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Caught a fun one:
Decedent's last Will leaves his home and tangible personal property to his
spouse, and then provides that if Spouse does not survive Decedent that his
entire estate is to be distributed to a series of successor beneficiaries.
Decedent's spouse has survived by the terms of the Will and the Will
provides for no distribution of Decedent's intangible personal property nor
for a timeshare. All of Decedent's property appears to be the property of
the marital community (no SPA, married for 30 years, money in individual
accounts earned during marriage, etc...). I'm now trying to figure out
exactly how to approach the pleadings for this one. My plan is to prepare a
Petition for Probate of Will that discloses the partial intestacy, affirms
that all property is community property, and that all intestate assets are
to be delivered to the surviving spouse.
My question: is there any reason why I should request both *Letters of
Administration *and *Letters Testamentary *to deal with this matter?
Reviewing RCW 11.28, I see no immediately obvious reason why just
seeking *Letters
Testamentary *wouldn't do the trick, plus the Will appoints the surviving
spouse as PR irrespective of whether the Will is silent on the specific
assets. That said, something about filing a PR deed affirming the intestate
rights of the surviving spouse but appending *Letters Testamentary *just
doesn't quite seem correct to me....
Any thoughts or best-practice advice is appreciated!
Best,
David J. Faber
Faber Feinson PLLC
210 Polk Street, Suite 1
Port Townsend, WA 98368
(360) 379-4110
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 23:11:25 +0000
From: Candace Wilkerson <cwilkerson at wongfleming.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Local referral needed (nursing home neglect)
Message-ID:
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Hi Listmates,
I am looking for a referral for a local (preferably Eastside) attorney who might be interested in consulting with a potential client whose mother just died (on November 20th) after being in a nursing home. The pc might be interested in an action against two nursing homes for neglect. I don't know the details, but I understand that the neglect occurred in two local nursing homes as recently as the last few months. The pc is looking for someone who would consider a contingency arrangement and an initial free consultation.
All referrals will be passed on to him.
Thanks in advance.
Best,
Candace Wilkerson
[cid:image001.png at 01D5A922.DF9761C0]
Top Ranked Law Firm for 2015 by Fortune Magazine and American Lawyer Media
Candace Wilkerson | Senior Associate | Wong Fleming
10675 Willows Road NE, Suite 250 | Redmond, WA 98052
Phone: 425.869.4040 | Fax: 425.869.4050
cwilkerson at wongfleming.com<mailto:cwilkerson at wongfleming.com>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:16:27 -0800
From: "Anthony Vivenzio" <vivenziolaw at rockisland.com>
To: "WSBA Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Probate Estate
Message-ID:
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Listmates,
Is property held in an irrevocable trust created by the decedent while she
was still living subject to a request made during the probate process for an
inventory of the decedent's estate?
Anthony D. Vivenzio,
Attorney and Counselor at Law
PO Box 208
540 Guard Street, Ste. 260
Friday Harbor, WA 98250
(360) 378-6860
<mailto:vivenziolaw at rockisland.com> vivenziolaw at rockisland.com
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 16:30:35 -0800
From: Brent Williams-Ruth <brent at williams-ruthlaw.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<CAMMb1JOD8YutaN6PFfsY9NQ4HxNU8a_9wmAXigYcEyMyxMk32g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a
TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants
to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will
which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division
between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's
POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank
accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
*Brent Williams-Ruth*
*Attorney-At-Law*
*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of **BWR Consulting, PLLC*
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website
<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
*As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent
Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new
points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>
<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com> *
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 00:46:21 +0000
From: "Diane J. Kiepe" <DJKiepe at depdslaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<BYAPR18MB2789DA03245D2E9F7955E402D5420 at BYAPR18MB2789.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Brent,
I believe a disclaimer would pas the property in accordance with the bank contract if any and if not, to his descendants as if he predeceased and if none, then in the form of intestacy which may or may not be the 7 folks you mentioned. A disclaimer in this case is only effective if the asset finds it?s way to the estate which I have found in practice happens half the time.
It would be much simpler to get the money and make the payments (then he would also get a nice income tax deduction). The only potential warning is if any of the accounts are qualified plans because he will then have to pay income tax on that asset.
Happy to talk it through if you are so inclined.
Diane J. Kiepe
Diane J. Kiepe
Douglas Eden
717 W. Sprague Ave.
Suite 1500
Spokane, WA 99201
djkiepe at depdslaw.com<mailto:djkiepe at depdslaw.com>
509-455-5300
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 00:49:14 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<BYAPR02MB42962EAF0FBF5A50497692F9BC420 at BYAPR02MB4296.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 01:06:29 +0000
From: "Lewis, Amy C." <ALewis at Eisenhowerlaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<MW2PR18MB22495058863D9C43986C8155D9420 at MW2PR18MB2249.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
My recollection is that a disclaimer by a non-spouse beneficiary has to be complete, meaning he can?t disclaim TOD and still take his share under the probate. See ? 25.2518-2(a)(5). Only a surviving spouse can disclaim in one capacity and still take in another.
Amy Lewis, Attorney
[cid:Logo_fa335a1d-9f24-4802-a3dd-b58f259e3c98.png]
1201 Pacific Avenue, Suite 1200 | Tacoma, WA 98402
phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/>>
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:49 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message. If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 17:12:45 -0800
From: Marvin Benson <marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<CACodssp4LBK24YTuvt3pZyyOQs346uhK+zES=Q+HoPdWV3z7Yw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
What about treating it as intended to be in trust to the oldest son for the
benefit of the beneficiaries in her will?
Marvin Benson
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 4:52 PM Philip N. Jones <pjones at duffykekel.com>
wrote:
> This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the
> son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were
> they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD,
> so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death,
> unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
>
> If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children,
> or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but
> specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate
> estate.
>
> On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he
> believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
>
> Phil Jones
>
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Brent Williams-Ruth
> *Sent:* Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
>
>
>
> Good Afternoon List -
>
>
>
> I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a
> TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants
> to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will
> which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division
> between 7 people.
>
>
>
> Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his
> mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her
> bank accounts as the TOD.
>
>
>
> Appreciate any thoughts,
>
> Brent
>
> *Brent Williams-Ruth*
> *Attorney-At-Law*
>
> *Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*
>
> Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
>
> Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
>
> e-mail <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website
> <http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
>
> *As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent
> Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new
> points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com>
> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com> <http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com> *
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 03:42:02 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID: <A964DDA1-33B9-4040-8576-FD88352C2E2A at duffykekel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I believe Amy is correct. Good catch.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
Portland, OR
pjones at duffykekel.com
(503) 226-1371
On Dec 2, 2019, at 5:09 PM, Lewis, Amy C. <ALewis at eisenhowerlaw.com> wrote:
?
My recollection is that a disclaimer by a non-spouse beneficiary has to be complete, meaning he can?t disclaim TOD and still take his share under the probate. See ? 25.2518-2(a)(5). Only a surviving spouse can disclaim in one capacity and still take in another.
Amy Lewis, Attorney
<Logo_fa335a1d-9f24-4802-a3dd-b58f259e3c98.png>
1201 Pacific Avenue, Suite 1200 | Tacoma, WA 98402
phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/>>
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:49 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message. If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 03:52:05 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID: <D4C94ED1-44A0-4BCA-92FD-0AA1031DDF9E at duffykekel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Only if the facts supported that assertion. The original post gave no hint of any such facts. We can?t create facts.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
Portland, OR
pjones at duffykekel.com
(503) 226-1371
On Dec 2, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Marvin Benson <marvinbensonlaw at gmail.com> wrote:
?
What about treating it as intended to be in trust to the oldest son for the benefit of the beneficiaries in her will?
Marvin Benson
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 4:52 PM Philip N. Jones <pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>> wrote:
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
_______________________________________________
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WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 07:55:26 -0800
From: Tom Westbrook <tjw at w3net.net>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID: <83140c91786e131a18411796d9f9c030 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I must be missing something in my old age, but why doesn?t he just take the
money and then distribute the way the decedent had wanted in the Will?
Sincerely,
Tom
Thomas J. Westbrook
Attorney at Law
[image: whiteRKCS_newlogo50_email_sig]
Rodgers, Kee Card & Strophy, P.S.
324 West Bay Drive NW, Suite 201
Olympia, Washington 98502
Phone: 360-352-8311
Facsimile: 360-352-8501
Email: tjw at buddbaylaw.com
Skype: thomas.westbrook
www.buddbaylaw.com<http://www.buddbaylaw.com>
The information contained in this email and attachment(s) are for the
exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain private, privileged
and/or confidential information. If you are not the addressee, you are
strictly prohibited from reading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise
using this email or its contents in any way. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at
360-352-8311 or by e-mail to shannon at buddbaylaw.com, and destroy the
original message from your electronic files.
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Lewis, Amy C.
*Sent:* Monday, December 02, 2019 5:06 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
My recollection is that a disclaimer by a non-spouse beneficiary has to be
complete, meaning he can?t disclaim TOD and still take his share under the
probate. See ? 25.2518-2(a)(5). Only a surviving spouse can disclaim in
one capacity and still take in another.
Amy Lewis, Attorney
[image:
http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/sites/www.eisenhowerlaw.com/themes/eisenhower/20150213_logo.png]
1201 Pacific Avenue, Suite 1200| Tacoma, WA 98402
phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com>
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Philip N. Jones
*Sent:* Monday, December 2, 2019 4:49 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the
son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were
they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD,
so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death,
unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children,
or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but
specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate
estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he
believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*On Behalf Of *Brent Williams-Ruth
*Sent:* Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a
TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants
to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will
which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division
between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's
POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank
accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
*Brent Williams-Ruth*
*Attorney-At-Law*
*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website
<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
*As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent
Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new
points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com>
and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com> <http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com> *
IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments
accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including
information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is
intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Delivery of this
message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to
waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the
message. If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute,
disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Rather,* please promptly
notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the
message and its attachments, if any.*
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 16:10:55 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<BYAPR02MB429624765E2C4A9DF9CF6F0BBC420 at BYAPR02MB4296.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yes, that was suggested earlier, and it is a solution that works well if he does not have a federally taxable estate.
Phil Jones
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Tom Westbrook
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2019 7:55 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
I must be missing something in my old age, but why doesn?t he just take the money and then distribute the way the decedent had wanted in the Will?
Sincerely,
Tom
Thomas J. Westbrook
Attorney at Law
[whiteRKCS_newlogo50_email_sig]
Rodgers, Kee Card & Strophy, P.S.
324 West Bay Drive NW, Suite 201
Olympia, Washington 98502
Phone: 360-352-8311
Facsimile: 360-352-8501
Email: tjw at buddbaylaw.com<mailto:tjw at buddbaylaw.com>
Skype: thomas.westbrook
www.buddbaylaw.com<http://www.buddbaylaw.com/>
The information contained in this email and attachment(s) are for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain private, privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the addressee, you are strictly prohibited from reading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this email or its contents in any way. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 360-352-8311 or by e-mail to shannon at buddbaylaw.com<mailto:shannon at buddbaylaw.com>, and destroy the original message from your electronic files.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Lewis, Amy C.
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 5:06 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
My recollection is that a disclaimer by a non-spouse beneficiary has to be complete, meaning he can?t disclaim TOD and still take his share under the probate. See ? 25.2518-2(a)(5). Only a surviving spouse can disclaim in one capacity and still take in another.
Amy Lewis, Attorney
[http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/sites/www.eisenhowerlaw.com/themes/eisenhower/20150213_logo.png]
1201 Pacific Avenue, Suite 1200| Tacoma, WA 98402
phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/>>
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:49 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail message (and any attachments accompanying it) may contain confidential information, including information protected by attorney-client privilege. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Delivery of this message to anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended to waive any privilege or otherwise detract from the confidentiality of the message. If you are not the intended recipient, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Rather, please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and its attachments, if any.
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:01:15 +0000
From: Heather de Vrieze <heatherd at westseattlelaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID:
<MWHPR2201MB13092A4C17FC2529577C22CFA7420 at MWHPR2201MB1309.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You did not state how much money was at stake here, and whether the TOD designation indicated whether it was to be distributed per stirpes or had an alternate TOD beneficiary. If neither, and the funds will pass to the estate if he disclaims, a disclaimer (assuming within 9 months of death) of the portion he believes should be included in the estate for distribution according to the Will makes the most sense to me.
If this is a small amount (under annual gift reporting limits of $15,000/person/year - or perhaps 2x that since it is December now and annual gifts could happen in 2019 and 2020) a gift seems like it would work well.
Heather
Heather S. de Vrieze
Attorney-at-Law
[cid:image003.jpg at 01D5A9B8.371A8860]
3909 California Avenue SW
Seattle, WA 98116-3705
(206)938-5500
heatherd at westseattlelaw.com<mailto:heatherd at westseattlelaw.com>
www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/<http://www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/>>
Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: [FB Logo] <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>
CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
Office/Scheduling Phone: (425) 830-5134
Direct Mobile: (206) 889-7919
e-mail<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com/> / facebook<http://www.facebook.com/bwrconsults> /
As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> and www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com<http://www.Williams-RuthLaw.com>>
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:32:46 -0800
From: "Mike Winslow" <mike at winslegal.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Message-ID: <007d01d5a9ff$ad9f4ab0$08dde010$@winslegal.com>
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The TOD creates ownership in the son, so when he transfers, he transfers his personal property, not his mom?s.
So, if he makes the transfers to the others, he will need to file a Gift Tax return if the transfers exceed the Annual Exclusion amount per donee.
Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Tom Westbrook
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2019 7:55 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
I must be missing something in my old age, but why doesn?t he just take the money and then distribute the way the decedent had wanted in the Will?
Sincerely,
Tom
Thomas J. Westbrook
Attorney at Law
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lewis, Amy C.
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 5:06 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
My recollection is that a disclaimer by a non-spouse beneficiary has to be complete, meaning he can?t disclaim TOD and still take his share under the probate. See ? 25.2518-2(a)(5). Only a surviving spouse can disclaim in one capacity and still take in another.
Amy Lewis, Attorney
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phone 253.572.4500 | fax 253.272.5732 | <http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com/> www.eisenhowerlaw.com<http://www.eisenhowerlaw.com>
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:49 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
This question usually comes up in connection with joint accounts, and the son needs to decide whether mom really intended him to inherit, or were they merely convenience accounts. But in your case, the accounts are TOD, so it appears that mom intended son to receive the accounts on death, unless mom thought TOD was simply a way to avoid probate.
If he disclaims the TOD designation, do the accounts pass to his children, or to the estate? Hi might consider disclaiming the TOD designation, but specifically state that he is not disclaiming an interest in the probate estate.
On the other hand, he might simply make gifts to his siblings, if he believes that he will never have a federal taxable estate.
Phil Jones
Portland, OR
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2019 4:31 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Possible to Reject a TOD?
Good Afternoon List -
I have an estate where the oldest son (also the Executor) was listed as a TOD on all of by his mother's bank accounts, except for $27,000. He wants to honor her wishes and distribute in accordance with the terms of her Will which had $30,000 in charitable donations and then an equal division between 7 people.
Is is possible to simply disclaim an interest in a TOD? He was his mother's POA but did not realize that years ago she added him to all of her bank accounts as the TOD.
Appreciate any thoughts,
Brent
Brent Williams-Ruth
Attorney-At-Law
Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC
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