[WSBAPT] Trust Designation

Fri Jul 6 18:42:33 PDT 2018

It just means “under agreement dated“. I’m sure it doesn’t have anything to do  with whether the trust is revocable or irrevocable.  I think it’s abbreviated that way because on the stock certificate or something there isn’t usually room to spell it all out.

On Jul 6, 2018, at 5:48 PM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com<mailto:pneumiller at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, I gotta admit, this is scary.  Who knew!?!?!    Perhaps this is one of those conventions that we, as a matter of custom and practice, can now ignore because it is an unnecessary trap for even the wary.  To wit, To wit, and forsooth.

<image002.jpg>

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 5:16 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Trust Designation

I think this is one of those things where people are confusing convenient abbreviations for terms with legal meaning.
https://www.thebalance.com/uad-trust-agreement-wills-3505620<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebalance.com%2Fuad-trust-agreement-wills-3505620&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbf810bde33174c3d310908d5e39f5d2d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636665195952308947&sdata=XnXKarhF289MI1o%2BRuIiXQOy6KbbOJpvtd%2BB5ZrghPY%3D&reserved=0>

They appear to be handy abbreviations, but using one in the wrong way doesn't magically change the character of a trust. They're just abbreviations.

Up until today, I just assumed the abbreviations varied because people abbreviate things in different ways. I did not think there was any intended distinction between them.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA  98144-3909
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 4:59 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Trust Designation

That was my general thought as well - that simply the words "under agreement dated on" have no specific intent behind them to be irrevocable - but this is how it was presented to me by an elder attorney nearly a decade ago who wrote my Godparents trust, which is, in fact, irrevocable.

Brent

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>> wrote:
I just Googled that, and discovered that I had no idea there were technical distinctions related to those abbreviations.

I might be the only ignorant one out there, but if I'm not, it's possible that someone else is misusing the abbreviation, so the Trust instrument itself will have to be consulted to determine whether or not it is revocable.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1417 31st Ave South
Seattle WA  98144-3909
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Brent Williams-Ruth
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 4:10 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: [WSBAPT] Trust Designation

Good Afternoon Hivemind -

I am looking at a trust for a client that has John Doe, Trustee of the John Doe Family Trust, u/a dtd Month, Date, Year of original creation.

It was my understanding that the U/A DTD designation meant it was an irrevocable trust - but this was used for an RLT.

I am setting time on Monday to hit the books to dig into this further, but thought I was see if anyone had the answer at their fingertips.

Thanks!
Brent

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Phone: (425) 830-5134

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