[WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions

[Doug Schafer]

I agee with all previous comments.  In addition, my multi-page form Health 
Care POA often names 2 to 4 agents listed in order of priority, so 
lower-priority ones may act if the provider is satisfied that all 
higher-priority ones are reasonably unavailable (e.g. travel, deaths, 
disability).  In contrast, my one-page form Financial POA states one and 
only one name as agent (but many clients sign two or more such forms, 
naming different agents), so third parties (e.g., bank tellers) need not 
question why a higher priority agent is not presenting the POA.  Clients 
then might retain the original POAs that name their alternate financial agents.

Doug Schafer, in Tacoma.

On 3/22/2017 5:00 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>
> I would add some additional considerations to this thread.
>
> ·When dealing with real property, a financial DPOA needs to be recorded.  
> The Health Care power does not need to be recorded.  Why pay the extra 
> money to record a longer document?
>
> ·Health Powers should be kept current (even though they don’t expire), so 
> I find that clients want to renew HC powers more often than financial 
> powers.  If the financial power has been recorded, they will elect to 
> leave the older financial power in place rather than having to record a 
> new power over the old one.
>
> Sincerely,
> *
> **Chris J. Moore*
> Christopher J. Moore, JD, CPA (Inactive), AEP^® , EPLS*
> Creason, Moore, Dokken & Geidl, PLLC
> Lawyers
> 1219 Idaho Street, POB 835
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> *From:*wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> 
> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Heather deVrieze
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:44 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> I’ll second what Doug said, but add that I also find that sheer length of 
> documents, the health care one can be more complete, stand alone, 
> separately modified, without bogging down the financial/general one.
>
> Some of my clients like to divide tasks among kids, and might put child 
> #1 first with child #2 second ( or 2^nd and 3^rd after spouse) on the 
> financial DPOA flip that on the medical DPOA.
>
> I’ve been doing them generally separate for most of my practice (since 1998).
>
> Heather
>
> Heather S. de Vrieze*
> */Attorney-at-Law/
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> *From:*wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Douglas Bratt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 3:35 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> Marilyn:
>
> Since I was the one who started this latest discussion, I will comment on 
> your question.  I started doing separate DPA documents about 10 - 15 
> years ago, principally for two reasons:
>
> First of all, a number of my clients had different people in mind to 
> handle the financial, as opposed to health care.  Say that a bank trust 
> dept has been appointed, in the Will, to serve as PR of the Estate 
> (particularly if there are no trusted individuals, financially-wise, 
> available to so serve, or if the sole beneficiary cannot take on this 
> task), the bank certainly does not want to take on the health care 
> decision-making, while the financially un-savvy relative (or sole 
> beneficiary) is perfectly capable of serving in a health-care 
> decision-making role.  That naturally leads to a two-DPA split, one for 
> financial affairs and the other one for health care.
>
> Secondly, it was 10 -15  years ago that health care issues became so much 
> more complicated, what with HIPPA issues, and the like.  And, the health 
> care providers seemed to like something with “Health Care” in its title, 
> and it seemed to make the health care professionals’ more accepting of 
> the role assigned to the Attorney-in-Fact (now referred to as an Agent, 
> in the new act).
>
> Those were the factors in my mind.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Bratt
>
> *From:*wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Marilyn J Kliman Law
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:28 AM
> *To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> All –
>
> I’d be interested to hear a bit of your respective reasoning behind 
> separate docs…..  I more often am finding combined to be appropriate…
>
> *Marilyn J. Kliman, Attorney at Law*
>
> Marilyn J. Kliman Law, PLLC
>
> 510 Bell Street
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> 206.499.0993 <tel:206.499.0993>
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> Marilyn at MarilynJKlimanLaw.com <mailto:Marilyn at MarilynJKlimanLaw.com>
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> *From:*wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Douglas Bratt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:15 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> I am thinking that I fully agree that the reasons that encouraged many of 
> us to do separate DPA’s before are still part of the picture and that 
> separate docs continue to make the most sense.
>
> Thanks so much to all who commented on this issue.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug Bratt
>
> Douglas J. Bratt
>
> Lawyer
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> *From:*wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com 
> <mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Josh Grant
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:35 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> One thought :  It may be better to have separate documents to make it 
> easier for the client to make a change in one without effecting the other 
> “power”.
>
> *From:*Setareh Mahmoodi <mailto:mahmoodi.setareh at gmail.com>
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, March 21, 2017 9:01 PM
>
> *To:*WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [WSBAPT] New Power of Attorney Act Questions
>
> I always do separate HC POA and Financial DPOA as well. I don't see 
> anything in the statute prohibiting that as well.
>
> Setareh
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Douglas Bratt 
> <djbratt at mbavancouverlaw.com <mailto:djbratt at mbavancouverlaw.com>> wrote:
>
> Listmates:
>
> Re-opening a dialogue of about six weeks ago, I have a question about the 
> new Power of Attorney Act when applied to the development of Durable 
> POA’s for Clients to sign.
>
> Very often, I have clients who prefer to have different persons making 
> financial decisions as opposed to health care decisions.  For that 
> reason, I have, over the past number of years, had clients sign a 
> separate Health Care DPA and a separate DPA for Financial Affairs.  The 
> Health Care providers seemed to prefer that approach, and with all of the 
> HIPPA stuff we were dealing with over the past number of years, there was 
> enough stuff to put into a Health Care DPA.
>
> In studying the new Act related to my development of  new DPA forms, I 
> saw nothing in the statute that would make me think that I need to have 
> two different such documents anymore.  However, I also saw nothing in the 
> new Act that would prevent the appointment of an “Agent” solely for 
> Health Care decisions, and an “Agent” solely for non-health care 
> decisions in the same new DPA document.
>
> Has anyone noted anything in the statute that would prevent such an 
> approach, and does anyone see any pitfalls of doing so in an appropriate 
> circumstance?
>
> Yes, I know that is a compound question, but please be patient with an 
> older fellow.
>
> Thanks for any of your insights.
>
> Doug Bratt
>
> Douglas J. Bratt
>
> Lawyer
>
> Envelope scaled Terry
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