[WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS

Fri Apr 7 07:27:55 PDT 2017

I'm not so sure that I read RCW 64.80.100 as stating that you cannot create
a JTWROS in a beneficiary deed.

(a) states "the interest in the property is transferred to the designated
beneficiary in accordance with the deed".  I would find that this allows
JTWROS as a starting point, but subject to (b) which simply states that you
must surviving the grantor in order to be a beneficiary.  Sub (c) and (d) I
would read to be safety clauses that deal with what happens if the deed
does not address the issue, but I do not read them as limitations to what
rights a deed can give.  So I agree that a beneficiary deed does not give
JTWROS on its own but I do not interpret that a beneficiary deed CANNOT
give JTWROS.

The same, so I would suggest, could be done in a beneficiary deed as we do
in wills.  Beneficiary deed, for example, could say that X and Y are
beneficiaries.  If X predeceases grantor then A shall take X's share.
However, (d) just gives us what would happen if no such language was used
in the deed but it does not limit our ability to make a contingent
beneficiary on the deed.

I have created a beneficiary deed with JTWROS for multiple beneficiaries so
if I am off track now would be the perfect time for me to correct my
mistake!  Have others heard that a beneficiary deed cannot create a JTWROS
interest?  Is my reading of the statute out in left field (comment for the
beginning of baseball season)?

Thank you for asking this related question Bryce.

Paul H. Grant - JD, LL.M

Planning with Purpose, Inc
Lynnwood, WA 98036
425-939-9948
www.planningwithpurposeinc.com

Estate Planning. Business Planning. Wealth Succession.

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Heather deVrieze <
heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> wrote:

> I believe the answer to that is no, but that RCW 64.80.100 essentially
> provides that a TOD deed to more than one beneficiary will create equal
> shares in those beneficiaries who survive the transferor.
>
>
>
> (c) Subject to (d) of this subsection, concurrent interests are
> transferred to the beneficiaries in equal and undivided shares with no
> right of survivorship.
>
> (d) If the transferor has identified two or more designated beneficiaries
> to receive concurrent interests in the property, the share of one which
> lapses or fails for any reason is transferred to the other, or to the
> others in proportion to the interest of each in the remaining part of the
> property held concurrently.
>
>
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> Heather S. de Vrieze
> *Attorney-at-Law*
>
> *[image: cid:image001.jpg at 01D013C2.30F35160]*
>
> 3909 California Avenue SW
>
> Seattle, WA 98116-3705
>
> (206)938-5500 <(206)%20938-5500>
>
> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com
>
> www.westseattlelaw.com
>
>
>
> *Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: *  *[image:
> FB Logo]* <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally
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>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Bryce Dille
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:55 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> A related question would be can a transfer by a transfer on death deed to
> two children as JTWROS?
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Eric
> Nelsen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:41 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> I think so, but don't hold me to it. I remember reviewing case law years
> ago that I believe said that, but I haven't gone back to look for it.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA  98144-3909
>
> phone 206-625-0092 <(206)%20625-0092>
>
> fax 206-625-9040 <(206)%20625-9040>
>
>
>
> *Please Note that We Have Moved.* We have moved our Seattle office to
> Mount Baker Ridge (a small commercial community just above the I-90
> tunnel). *Our new address is 1417 31st Avenue South, Seattle WA 98144. *All
> other contact information remains the same.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bryce
> Dille
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:15 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> Are you saying that if I want to gift or convey property to two
> individuals as JTWROS that the grantees have to agree to take it in that
> capacity?
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Eric
> Nelsen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:01 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> Huh--but JTWROS property held by husband and wife IS community property,
> isn't it? RCW 64.28.040
> <http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.28&full=true#64.28.040>.
> Regardless of the right of survivorship, the property is still presumed to
> be CP.
>
>
>
> I do think there are some questions about whether ROS is effective if the
> Grantor is not also one of the Grantees. So "X conveys to X and Y as JTWROS
> and not as tenants in common" might work, but "X conveys to Y and Z as
> JTWROS and not as tenants in common" does not, without contemporaneous
> evidence that Y and Z intended to receive as ROS.
>
>
>
> But I don't understand why JTWROS would be considered incompatible with
> also being CP.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
>
> 1417 31st Ave South
>
> Seattle WA  98144-3909
>
> phone 206-625-0092 <(206)%20625-0092>
>
> fax 206-625-9040 <(206)%20625-9040>
>
>
>
> *Please Note that We Have Moved.* We have moved our Seattle office to
> Mount Baker Ridge (a small commercial community just above the I-90
> tunnel). *Our new address is 1417 31st Avenue South, Seattle WA 98144. *All
> other contact information remains the same.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Heather
> deVrieze
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 12:23 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> I have been told by a title examiner at one of our local title companies
> that they would not honor a JTWROS deed to a married couple unless it
> clearly stated “as Joint Tenants with Rights of Survivorship, and NOT as
> Tenants in Common, and NOT as Community Property”.
>
>
>
> We argued about this a bit, but I believe in the end, and advise most of
> my clients that absent compelling reason to do otherwise, holding property
> as husband and wife (i.e. community property) is the best way to own
> property together. I sure wouldn’t want them to lose a step-up in basis
> because it is held JTWROS and not as CP, so no 100% step.
>
>
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> Heather S. de Vrieze
> *Attorney-at-Law*
>
> *[image: cid:image001.jpg at 01D013C2.30F35160]*
>
> 3909 California Avenue SW
>
> Seattle, WA 98116-3705
>
> (206)938-5500 <(206)%20938-5500>
>
> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com
>
> www.westseattlelaw.com
>
>
>
> *Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: *  *[image:
> FB Logo]* <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally
> privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this
> e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
> of this e-mail message and any attachment.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Culbertson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 11:27 AM
> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com; wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Misgivings about JTWROS
>
>
>
> Hello, Listmates.
>
>
>
> A client asked me if doing a QCD of their home to their wife, with JTWROS
> language, would cause any issues. Not my main field, so I don’t know, and I
> likely will advise them to go find out from a lawyer who spends more time
> on those issues. Something is nagging me about the combo of JWTROS and a
> QCD, but I may simply be mis-remembering something. Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Dave Culbertson
>
>
>
> *The Law Office of Davisson Culbertson, PLLC*
>
> 19909 Ballinger Way NE
>
> Shoreline, WA 98155
>
>
>
> *Phone: *(206) 478-8134
>
> *FAX: *(866) 867-7796
>
> *dculbertson at culbertsonlawoffice.com*
> <dculbertson at culbertsonlawoffice.com>
>
>
>
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