[WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate

Tue May 5 18:16:59 PDT 2015

This has been an enlightening discussion.  Not for the solutions suggested,
though they have been creative.  But for the very fact that so many of us
are having this similar problem with Bank of America.  When does such
repetitive action become subject of a class action?  Whew!!  I'm surprised I
even d=said that.  Who wants to bite that off and chew on it for five years?

Someone should.

James R. Doran

Attorney at Law

100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205

Bellingham, WA 98225

(360)393-9506

 <mailto:jim at doranlegal.com> jim at doranlegal.com

www.doranlegal.com

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:48 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate

I have thought of the following dodge for checks payable to the Estate where
the Estate isn't opened, but haven't tried it out yet so I'll offer it up to
see what people think:

1. Do your due diligence to ascertain who the proper successors to the
Estate are, and ensure that all the small affidavit requirements (including
concerning debts) have been met.

2. Have the successors all agree that they authorize one of them to act as
their agent for purposes of endorsing the checks.

3. Have agent endorse the checks over to firm IOLTA account. S/he isn't
technically authorized, but if all the successors have agreed, who is going
to be harmed?

4. Handle the funds as estate funds and disburse in accordance with the law.

I know it's generally not best practice to handle estate funds through the
IOLTA account rather than requiring the Estate to open a separate bank
account--but the point of this exercise is to avoid that.

Seems to me, if the firm is willing to act essentially as a true fiduciary
for the funds, and all successors agree to allow this procedure, there is
low risk and high benefit to the successors in terms of efficiency. The
agreement of all successors essentially serves as a waiver of any need to
get a PR officially appointed, since all interested parties are protected.

The chief risk is, I think, endorsement of a check by a non-payee. But if
all legitimate successors of the non-payee are in agreement, I can't imagine
that the check issuer is going to object.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC

1320 University St

Seattle WA  98101-2837

phone 206-625-0092

fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Ainsley
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 1:57 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate

Unfortunately, we have three checks to cash that are made payable to the
estate of the decedent so BOA is insisting that it won't cash them unless we
set up a bank account for the "estate".

Stuart

Stuart M. Ainsley

Attorney

Law Offices of Stuart M. Ainsley, P.S.1

2701 Mingus Drive

Cedar Park, TX  78613

512-638-0285 (Texas phone number)

206-780-9024 (Washington phone number)

512-366-5216 (fax)

mailto:stuart at ainsleylaw.com

1Licensed to practice Law in Texas and Washington

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Bratt
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 3:48 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate

The irony, of course, is that the Small Estate Affidavit procedure is
designed to allow custodians to hand over funds held in accounts of
decedents without putting itself in jeopardy as to possible liability claims
for unlawfully having released the funds, so long as the Claiming Successor
"crosses the T's and dots the I's" in making application for the funds.

I agree with Eric that the statute does not require "the Estate" to be
involved, since the whole purpose behind the statute is to set up a
procedure whereby NO Estate ever has to be created.  So, how can there be an
EIN requirement if there is no Estate?

I agree - it has all of the feel of a BOA situation.  It seems like each
employee is required to partake of "Do it By the BOA Book Pills,"
apparently, ingesting them at least hourly, even if "the Book" and the
Bank's rigid rules do not comply with the law.  And, don't forget,
everything has to be passed through the Legal Department, and they still
don't always follow the law, IMHO.

Regards,

Doug Bratt 

Douglas J. Bratt

Lawyer

Office: (360) 213-2040 

 Fax: (360) 213-2030

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 11:30 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate [text]

I'm guessing that's Bank of America, grrrr.

In any case, the small affidavit process under Ch. 11.62 RCW is supposed to
avoid all the probate issues. The custodian of the funds is entitled to hand
it over directly to the successor, not to "the Estate."

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC

1320 University St

Seattle WA  98101-2837

phone 206-625-0092

fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Ainsley
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:34 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] EIN for Small Estate

List mates:

I am trying to take care of a very small estate.  It has a CD for less than
$12,000 and three checks made payable to the estate of $1,700.  That's it.
I was going to use a small estate affidavit but the bank is insisting that
we set up an estate bank account and provide Letters Testamentary and an EIN
for the estate.    I think I can convince them that we don't need the
letters but I'm concerned about the EIN.  I have applied for EIN's for
estates before but the online program always ask for the County and State
where the probate has been filed and the name of the Personal
Representative.  Has anyone successfully obtained an EIN for an estate
without filing a probate?  I hate to file a probate just to satisfy some
bank manager's checklist of documents.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Stuart

Stuart M. Ainsley

Attorney

Law Offices of Stuart M. Ainsley, P.S.1

2701 Mingus Drive

Cedar Park, TX  78613

512-638-0285 (Texas phone number)

206-780-9024 (Washington phone number)

512-366-5216 (fax)

mailto:stuart at ainsleylaw.com

1Licensed to practice Law in Texas and Washington

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is confidential.  It is intended solely for the use of
the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the
person responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
advised that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete and/or
destroy the original and all copies of the e-mail message.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of CHRISTOPHER
CONSTANTINE
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 10:09 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Amending a Will While Under Guardianship

Estate of Alsup, 181 Wash.App. 856 has facts that may be very close to your
case. 

Chris Constantine

Of Counsel, Inc., P.S.

P. O. Box 7125

Tacoma, WA 98417-0125

(253) 752-7850

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>
[mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jami Pannell
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 5:34 PM
To: WSBA Estate Planning Discussion Group
Subject: [WSBAPT] Amending a Will While Under Guardianship

Colleagues:

[This question is posed by my practice partner.] We consulted with a
potential client who initially had a guardianship established over him while
he convalesced from a head injury. He eventually recovered from his injuries
and went back to living life almost as independently as before his injury.
He had the court appointed guardian removed and wanted to keep his
guardianship for major financial decisions, so he had his stepdaughter
appointed.  Now he is interested in updating a will he made prior to the
initial guardianship, as well as executing a transfer on death deed. The
resulting changes would be consistent with his original estate plan and our
opinion is that he has the capacity to make these changes and understands
them fully.  I believe this would be in compliance with RPC 1.14.

The order appointing the original guardian specifically revoked his right to
make or amend a will, and the new order appointing his stepdaughter is
silent on the issue.  His stepdaughter is also his heir, which may
complicate matters.  Can anyone point to legal support for us drafting a
valid codicil and deed in spite of what the original guardianship order
states?  

Any feedback is appreciated.

Jami L. Pannell

Attorney & Counselor at Law

A Nonprofit Organization

1655 Hudson Street, Ste. 1

Longview, WA 98632

T: (360) 442-4101

F: (360) 200-6799

 <http://www.3rlaw.org/> 3Rlaw.org

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