[WSBAPT] Clerk's Action Filed TEDRA Agreement
John J. Sullivan
sullaw at comcast.net
Fri Dec 18 14:54:58 PST 2015
That was my hesitation - whether the Clerk would follow the order.
I have one situation pending, however, where a third (non) party concluded it would be bound if it became an order by filing: involved a trust with real property in San Diego. We used a TEDRA to redirect the property in a way other than in the document so that it would not trigger reassessment under Prop 13. We couched it as a correction of the Grantor's intent. Keeping my fingers crossed. Assessor said they would honor it if it was an order effective as of the Grantor's DOD but I haven't heard the final word yet.
John Sullivan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 18, 2015, at 1:35 PM, Douglas Bratt <djbratt at mbavancouverlaw.com> wrote:
>
> I think the point is that when the statute says the TEDRA Agreement carries the force of a judge’s order, binding on the parties to the TEDRA Agreement, it means that none of the agreeing parties could object when a formal court order is not sought or entered to bring about the result that has been agreed to.
>
> However, to the extent that the parties agree that something should happen that results in someone, other than an agreeing party, having to take further action in response thereto, I am certain that non-parties to the agreement would not feel bound to do anything simply because the parties all agree that something should be done.
>
> Something like the issuance of new Letters in a probate case would, at least in the world in which I practice (Clark County), not be done unless a judge told the Clerks to do so. Without such an order, I don’t think that any of our Deputy Clerks would feel comfortable in doing so, or inclined to do so, even with encouragement from an attorney they generally trust and feel comfortable around. There is just something about that black robe that makes a difference.
>
> Perhaps including something in the TEDRA Agreement, like the parties agreeing that the attorney for the PR being able and authorized to present a court order for signing by a judge (that orders the issuance of new Letters, for instance) without all of the parties being required to sign off on the order, would save a few steps in an otherwise potentially more cumbersome procedure.
>
> Just my three cents worth (inflation is coming back).
>
> Doug Bratt
>
> Douglas J. Bratt
> Lawyer
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> From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 10:40 AM
> To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Clerk's Action Filed TEDRA Agreement
>
> Thanks.
>
> I think we'll end up making it a hybrid agreed order/TEDRA and get a Commissioner to sign it. I'll ask the Clerks and let you know if the response is interesting.
>
> In this case they should go along since all interested parties are signing off on what is clearly limited to the definition of a TEDRA "matter." But as long as it's agreed it doesn't add a lot of time, expense or uncertainty to walk it through Ex Parte.
>
> John Sullivan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 18, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com> wrote:
>
> !
> The statute says it's effective as an Order, but it's not signed by a judge and doesn't look like an Order. The Clerks do a lot but I am not sure just how far the scope of the TEDRA "agreement filed is like an order" goes. Could I issue a warrant for somebody's arrest? Direct a bank to unblock funds (would a bank comply without a judge's signature)? Resolve a boundary dispute with a non-party?
>
> Obviously some of the answers are "heck no" but that just points out that there is a limit to the "effective as an order" language of RCW 11.96A.230.
>
> For your specific situation, I think the answer will just depend on whether the clerks have decided what to do in that case. I haven't seen any case law interpreting the full scope of .230. The clerk might insist on a judge signature, they might not. Probably easiest to call the clerk's office to see if it's ever been done.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
> SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
> 1320 University St
> Seattle WA 98101-2837
> phone 206-625-0092
> fax 206-625-9040
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 5:24 PM
> To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Clerk's Action Filed TEDRA Agreement
>
> My thought is if it's an Order the Clerk will follow it.
>
> John Sullivan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2015, at 1:01 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com> wrote:
> >
> > Never tried that! And I have no answer for you but I think it's a very interesting question.
> >
> > Are the parties effectively the "judge" in that circumstance, who appoints "any suitable person" as PR? And say the parties agree to appoint someone who is statutorily disqualified--what effect? Is the order void, voidable? Do the parties get to decide on bond as well?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > Eric C. Nelsen
> > SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
> > 1320 University St
> > Seattle WA 98101-2837
> > phone 206-625-0092
> > fax 206-625-9040
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John J. Sullivan
> > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 10:52 AM
> > To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
> > Subject: [WSBAPT] Clerk's Action Filed TEDRA Agreement
> >
> > Listmates:
> >
> > In an intestate probate I'm using a nonjudicial TEDRA Agreement to accomplish several things, including replacing the Administrator.
> >
> > As we know, when you file one in a probate it has the force and effect of a court order. My question: in that case will the Clerk follow it if instructed to issue new Letters to the substitute Administrator in King County even though the parties sign it rather than the judge?
> >
> > Anyone try this?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John J. Sullivan
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
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