[WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.

Wed Apr 22 15:22:26 PDT 2015

Even if it's community debt, the S/L still bars collection from the Estate and/or the claim is not proper as to post-death debts. It's not proper to file a creditor claim against the Estate for debts incurred by the surviving spouse. So, I still think it's valid to reject the creditor claim. And I think accepting the creditor claim would cause more problems than rejecting it could, unless the widow plans to pay it off completely now anyway. Accepting the claim could cause the Estate to become insolvent, or require some kind of arrangement for payment before the Estate could be closed--all administrative headaches that I think can be legally and properly avoided.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1320 University St
Seattle WA  98101-2837
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Amy Goertz
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:57 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.

Thank you for your responses and input.  My initial information is coming third-hand and I share the many doubts about whether the plan to extinguish the debt by saying the 2-year statute has passed is going to work.  The date of death (10/2011) balance was $44,000; current balance is $47,000.  Widow filed probate in November 2014.  The file came to me today with the the hopes of getting something out of the estate.  Yes, the card is in both names and she has made payments of approximately $1200/month since his death.

Amy J. Goertz, J.D.
Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC
510 Bell Street
Edmonds, WA  98020

amyjgoertz at icloud.com<mailto:amyjgoertz at icloud.com>

ph. 425.778.8997

On Apr 22, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Sam Furgason <sam at furgasons.com<mailto:sam at furgasons.com>> wrote:

I was wondering about that too, Paul. Why are the charges the husband incurred not community debt? Also, weren’t payments made for the two + years? Is continued use and payment not a confirmation of the debt? Aren’t payments applied on a FIFO basis? I can’t see how the widow could have continued use of the card for two years without paying off a lot of the pre-death obligation, even if she ran the total balance up. On another thought, I once got all credit card debt of a deceased spouse discharged by using the homestead allowance (although the spouses were legally separated when the debt was incurred by the decedent, so my client had no personal obligation on the accounts).
S

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:20 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.

A contra argument could be made with more information.  I wonder how the surviving spouse was able to continue to “use” her husband’s card.  Maybe she is on the account and therefor personally liable anyway.  In that case, she may win the probate battle but lose the collection war as to the full $15k.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 11:27 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.

If you have your WSBAPT emails searchable, you might search for references to the "Henington" case; there was a good discussion on it middle of last year. In re Estate of Henington, 331 P.3d 112 (Wash.App. Div. 2 2014), rev. denied, 182 Wn.2d 1005, 342 P.3d 327 (2015). I think the case is a little wacky but it's the most recent case on interaction of SOL and creditor claim process.

I think 2-year post-death SOL bars the claim for the $10,000, and the creditor claim process is not applicable to post-death debts incurred by the estate or the surviving spouse, so it should be completely rejected. I think that rejection wouldn't prevent them from trying to collect the post-death $5,000 from the surviving spouse, or from the Estate directly if it were estate expenses that were charged. But the creditor claim itself is improper because it is used for pre-death debts only.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1320 University St
Seattle WA  98101-2837
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Amy Goertz
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 2:35 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: [WSBAPT] Creditor Claim S.O.L.

I have an estate in which the husband died leaving a significant credit card balance ($10,000).  Wife continued to use the husband’s card after his death, increasing it to the current balance of $15,000.  Wife recently opened probate and published Notice to Creditors, sending actual notice to the credit card company.  Creditor filed claim for total balance.  Since more than two years has passed since the date of death, is there any way to argue that the S.O.L. has passed on the d.o.d. balance of $10,000?  Any thoughts?

Amy J. Goertz, J.D.
Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC
510 Bell Street
Edmonds, WA  98020

amyjgoertz at icloud.com<mailto:amyjgoertz at icloud.com>

ph. 425.778.8997
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