[BULK] RE: [WSBAPT] Community Property Question
Judy Luther
JELuther at comcast.net
Thu Feb 20 22:40:23 PST 2014
I am confused as well. Am I not understanding RCW 26.16.220? I
understand quasi-community property to be property that would have been
considered community had the married couple been residing in Washington
(or any CP state) at the time the asset was acquired. Therefore, if the
spouses earned income in a non-CP state, then moved to Washington and used
said income to purchase a home, the income would be considered quasi-CP
because it was earned during the marriage, and the home would be
considered (at a minimum) quasi-CP because quasi-CP funds were used to
purchase it. Am I completely off base?
~ Judy Luther
Judith E. Luther
Carlson-Whitley & Luther, LLP
1217 Cooper Point Road SW, Suite 6
Olympia, WA 98502-7206
Ph: (360) 915-9774
Fx: (360) 915-8759
From: Eric Nelsen <mailto:Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:13 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [BULK] RE: [WSBAPT] Community Property Question
I think I am missing something, if I'm coming up with an opinion contrary
to Prof. Boxx's.
Would the house be separate property solely because the money used to
jointly acquire it was each spouse's "separate property" based on another
state's law? Does the characterization-on-acquisition rule not apply for
some reason?
This isn't a situation where, for example, Wife buys a car with cash from
a separate-property bank account and titles it solely in her own name. I
understand the question to be about a house bought together (with both
spouse's separate funds) and titled jointly as "husband and wife." As an
acquisition during marriage, that seems like it's presumed to be community
property. At the very least, I would think the separate property
commingled and therefore now community property.
Also, as it's titled in "X and Y, husband and wife" which looks (to me)
more like holding as community property versus "X and Y, a married couple,
each as to an undivided equal separate property interest as tenants in
common." All these things together, to me, make the community property
presumption difficult to rebut. It is bolstered by the rule that separate
assets used to acquire an asset and including the other spouse's name on
title is presumptively a gift to the community. The case cited, Scott v.
Currie, 7 Wn.2d 301, cites all these rules.
If I'm messing this up, I would welcome comments and criticism. Thanks as
always--
Sincerely,
Eric
Eric C. Nelsen
SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
1320 University St
Seattle WA 98101-2837
phone 206-625-0092
fax 206-625-9040
From: wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Karen E. Boxx
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 5:39 PM
To: <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [BULK] Re: [WSBAPT] Community Property Question
it's still separate property if it was earned in a common law state. by
definition, if acquired in a common law state it's separate when they
acquire while living in a non cp state and bring it into washington, even
if it would have been cp if earned while living here. I read your fact
description that they had earned all their money while living in a non-cp
state.
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:35 PM, "Jacob Menashe" <jacob at hickmanmenashe.com>
wrote:
What an interesting discussion – thanks to all who contributed! Indeed, I
am thinking about a scenario where one spouse has died.
And I guess my question back to Professor Box, if I may, is whether her
analysis would be impacted in that it wasn’t really separate property that
went into the house purchase, by Washington residents, as “husband and
wife,” but it was money these folks had together from their marriage, and
from both of their work outside the house?
Jacob
From: wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Karen E. Boxx
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:09 PM
To: <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Community Property Question
Sam is right - quasi-community property only applies on the death of the
first spouse. as for the community presumption, it's easily rebutted by
the fact that the $$ used to purchase the home was separate, because
earned in a common law state. see Scott v. Currie, 7 wn.2d 301. they
could convert it to community property by agreement now that they live in
Washington, but the deed doesn't seem to get them there.
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2014, at 3:39 PM, "Sam Furgason" <sam at furgasons.com> wrote:
I believe somebody has to be dead before the quasi-community property
rules come into play (check out 26.16.220 et. seq.), so if they are both
still living there is not yet any quasi.
That gets you into presumptions (property held as husband and wife is
(rebuttably) presumed to be community, which gets into intent. They might
want to clear that up, because there is no mention of quasi in IRC Sec.
1014, which adjusts basis of both halves of community property on death of
one spouse. That is, of course, if they’re still speaking.
S
From: wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbapt-owner at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Menashe
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:54 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Community Property Question
I have a community property versus quasi-community property question.
Husband and wife move to Washington after retirement. They take funds
earned in a non-community property state and purchase a house as “John and
Sally, husband and wife.” Is the house community property or
quasi-community property?
Thanks,
Jacob
_______________________
Jacob H. Menashe
Hickman Menashe, PS
4211 Alderwood Mall Blvd., Suite 202
Lynnwood, WA 98036
(425) 744-5658 phone
(425) 744-6078 fax
www.hickmanmenashe.com
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