<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Just to set the record straight, Thomas Jefferson didn't say the quote attributed to him:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><a href="https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jun/06/facebook-posts/no-thomas-jefferson-did-not-say-big-government-str/">https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jun/06/facebook-posts/no-thomas-jefferson-did-not-say-big-government-str/</a> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">A researcher did locate the origin of the quote about big government:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">This is usually attributed to Gerald Ford, but researcher </span><strong style="box-sizing:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">Barry Popik</strong><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px"> has found it earlier, in </span><strong style="box-sizing:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">Paul Harvey</strong><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">‘s 1952 book </span><em style="box-sizing:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">Remember These Things</em><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,serif;font-size:15px">.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><a href="https://freakonomics.com/2009/10/01/quotes-uncovered-big-government-and-peculiarities/">https://freakonomics.com/2009/10/01/quotes-uncovered-big-government-and-peculiarities/</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">And that's the rest of the story...</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> <br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2">Ron Force<br>Moscow Idaho USA</font></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 9:06 PM Ted Moffett <<a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">starbliss@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><h1 style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 24px;line-height:1.25;font-weight:500;letter-spacing:-0.6px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:ProximaNova,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Open Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif"><font size="2">Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett</font></h1><div>------------------------------------</div><div><span style="color:rgb(101,83,83);font-family:ProximaNova,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Open Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;font-size:18px;letter-spacing:1.75px;text-transform:uppercase">MAR 19, 2020</span>  <br></div><h1 style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 24px;line-height:1.25;font-weight:500;letter-spacing:-0.6px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:ProximaNova,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Open Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif"><font size="2"><a href="https://www.truthdig.com/articles/if-trump-declares-martial-law-due-to-coronavirus-can-he-suspend-the-election/" target="_blank">https://www.truthdig.com/articles/if-trump-declares-martial-law-due-to-coronavirus-can-he-suspend-the-election/</a>  </font><span style="font-size:small;letter-spacing:-0.6px"><br></span></h1><h1 style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 24px;line-height:1.25;font-weight:500;letter-spacing:-0.6px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:ProximaNova,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen,Ubuntu,Cantarell,"Open Sans","Helvetica Neue",sans-serif"><span style="letter-spacing:-0.6px"><font size="4">If Trump Declares Martial Law Due to Coronavirus, Can He Suspend the Election?</font></span><br></h1><div><span style="letter-spacing:-0.6px"><font size="4">Excerpt from article:</font></span></div><div><span style="letter-spacing:-0.6px"><font size="4"><br></font></span></div><div><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 28px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:Lora,Cambria,Cochin,"Times New Roman",Times,Georgia,serif;font-size:18px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">If our self-proclaimed “wartime president” were to declare martial law to fight the pandemic, would he have the authority to suspend the election in November? Josh Douglas, an election law scholar at the University of Kentucky Law School, doesn’t believe so. “Even [martial law] would likely not give him power to postpone election or delay end of his term on Jan. 20, 2021,” he </span><a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaADouglas/status/1238875671386034176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1238875671386034176&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Ftrump-cant-cancel-or-postpone-the-november-election-over-coronavirus-2020-3" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">tweeted</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">. “As Supreme Court said in ex parte Milligan (1866), martial law does not suspend the Constitution.”</span></p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 28px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:Lora,Cambria,Cochin,"Times New Roman",Times,Georgia,serif;font-size:18px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">But Ian Millhiser, a senior correspondent at Vox, where he covers Supreme Court issues, points out that the courts usually defer to national security decisions made by presidents, citing the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold Japanese-American detention camps during World War II and, more recently, President Trump’s Muslim travel ban. “American election law was not written with a pandemic in mind,” he </span><a href="https://www.vox.com/2020/3/18/21183492/election-coronavirus-ohio-pandemic-supreme-court-speweik" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">writes</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">. “Extraordinary measures may be necessary to control the spread of coronavirus for many months — possibly continuing well into the November election season. And if those extraordinary measures do disrupt the general elections, courts are likely to defer to public health officials even if those officials act with partisan motivation.”</span></p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 28px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:Lora,Cambria,Cochin,"Times New Roman",Times,Georgia,serif;font-size:18px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">John W. Whitehead, founder and president of the Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties organization based in Charlottesville, Virginia, views the coronavirus pandemic not as a test of our ability to come together as a nation in a time of crisis, but rather as “a test to see whether the Constitution—and our commitment to the principles enshrined in the Bill of Rights—</span><a href="https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-constitution-fare-during-nationwide-lockdown/5706172" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">can survive a national crisis and a true state of emergency</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">.”</span></p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 28px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:Lora,Cambria,Cochin,"Times New Roman",Times,Georgia,serif;font-size:18px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Today in America, we find ourselves caught in the crosshairs of two powerful, unpredictable and dangerous forces—Trumpism and coronavirus. The stock market has <a href="https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-bump-flattened-post-inauguration-163524922.html" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank">lost all its gains since Trump took office</a>, a <a href="https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/steven-mnuchin-unemployment-warning-coronavirus/index.html" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank">20 percent unemployment rate</a> is in the offing, and <a href="https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank">Americans are dying</a>. Will we pass this test? Will the Constitution survive?</span></p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 28px;color:rgb(54,54,54);font-family:Lora,Cambria,Cochin,"Times New Roman",Times,Georgia,serif;font-size:18px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, agrees with the wartime footing that Trump has initiated. “This is a war, we have to treat it like a war,” Cuomo </span><a href="https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-respirator-20200319-xuimmmxatjcnpnvhvntqkp6mle-story.html" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(147,42,3)" target="_blank"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">said</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">. “In a war, you need the federal government.” Sure, states need help from Washington to deal with the pandemic, from the health crisis itself to the economic crisis it has spawned. But before tanks start rumbling down New York’s Fifth Avenue and the Army Corps of Engineers cordons off neighborhoods with bollards and barbed wire, Cuomo might consider the warning of one of Trump’s more eloquent and sagacious predecessors, Thomas Jefferson: “A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have.”</span></p></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 1:13 PM Ron Force <<a href="mailto:ronforce@gmail.com" target="_blank">ronforce@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small">Here's a recent discussion from the blog<i> Marginal Revolution:</i></div><div style="font-size:small"><i><br></i></div><div style="font-size:small"><div><span style="font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>Will the November 2020 elections be postponed? It's not impossible, as the law for Nov elections only dates to the 1790s and is a law passed by Congress, it's not in the US constitution. Stay tuned...</span></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;font-size:16px"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">Me and mine are fine, in GR and PH at the moment and in self-sufficient farms (both of us). 1% always survive.</p></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:"Gotham SSm A","Gotham SSm B",sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:italic;line-height:26px;display:flex;margin-bottom:20px"><h3 style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:500;line-height:1.1;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:1.25rem;letter-spacing:0.75px;float:left">Jeremy</h3>March 16, 2020 at 11:13 am  <a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#" style="color:rgb(24,177,240);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal" target="_blank">Hide Replies</a><span style="box-sizing:border-box;display:block;font-size:12px"><a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049781" title="Permalink to this comment" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(170,170,170);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal;display:block;padding:2px 4px" target="_blank">3</a></span></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">The U.S. Constitution makes it very clear: on January 20th, at noon, if there hasn't been an election and nobody has voted, Nancy Pelosi becomes President of the United States.</p></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:"Gotham SSm A","Gotham SSm B",sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:italic;line-height:26px;display:flex;margin-bottom:20px"><h3 style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:500;line-height:1.1;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:1.25rem;letter-spacing:0.75px;float:left">Ignacio</h3>March 16, 2020 at 11:57 am  <a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#" style="color:rgb(24,177,240);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal" target="_blank">Hide Replies</a><span style="box-sizing:border-box;display:block;font-size:12px"><a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049814" title="Permalink to this comment" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(170,170,170);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal;display:block;padding:2px 4px" target="_blank">4</a></span></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">But, if there had been no elections, Nancy's term will also have expired. Then, wouldn't the president be the President pro tempore of the Senate?</p></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:"Gotham SSm A","Gotham SSm B",sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:italic;line-height:26px;display:flex;margin-bottom:20px"><h3 style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:500;line-height:1.1;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:1.25rem;letter-spacing:0.75px;float:left">Bob from Ohio</h3>March 16, 2020 at 2:15 pm  <a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#" style="color:rgb(24,177,240);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal" target="_blank">Hide Replies</a><span style="box-sizing:border-box;display:block;font-size:12px"><a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049930" title="Permalink to this comment" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(170,170,170);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal;display:block;padding:2px 4px" target="_blank">5</a></span></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">Yes, and since a majority of the 2020 senate class is GOP, the Dems will elect the pro tem so it will be Leahy.</p></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:"Gotham SSm A","Gotham SSm B",sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:italic;line-height:26px;display:flex;margin-bottom:20px"><h3 style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:500;line-height:1.1;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:1.25rem;letter-spacing:0.75px;float:left">John M</h3>March 16, 2020 at 2:59 pm  <a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#" style="color:rgb(24,177,240);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal" target="_blank">Hide Replies</a><span style="box-sizing:border-box;display:block;font-size:12px"><a href="https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049968" title="Permalink to this comment" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(170,170,170);box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;text-decoration-line:none;font-style:normal;display:block;padding:2px 4px" target="_blank">6</a></span></div><div style="box-sizing:border-box"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">Not necessarily. The Presidential Succession Act doesn't have primacy here; the 12th and 20th Amendments do. On January 6, when Congress convenes to count the electoral votes, if there is no candidate that receives 270 votes then the House of Representatives chooses a President with one vote cast by each state delegation. The Constitution specifies that a quorum requires at least one Member from two-thirds of the states, and votes from a majority of the states to be elected.</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">Now, what happens if there *is* no House of Representatives because every single one's term expired is an interesting question, or if the House can't seat members from at least 34 states on January 3 when the new Congress begins. That's the point at which I would assume the Presidential Succession Act takes hold, and we start talking about President Leahy or President Grassley.</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 15px;font-family:Merriweather,serif;font-size:1rem;word-break:break-word;line-height:1.73">This also assumes, of course, that states don't take some alternate route to select Presidential electors. There's no Constitutional requirement that they do so via public vote; the Constitution only says that "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress" so in theory state legislatures could bypass popular elections and simply select electors by gubernatorial fiat, by legislative vote, by wet t-shirt contest, etc. This doesn't solve the issue of seating a House of Representatives -- which *does* have to be selected by popular vote -- but it's at least theoretically an option.</p></div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2">Ron Force<br>Moscow Idaho USA</font></div></div></div><div style="font-size:small"> </div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:47 PM Nicholas Gier <<a href="mailto:ngier006@gmail.com" target="_blank">ngier006@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">My understanding is that the states run the elections, and they would decide to postpone or cancel.<div>nfg</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:42 PM Kenneth Marcy <<a href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On 3/22/20 6:39 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
> . . . Trump suspends the November presidential election due to <br>
> national emergency?<br>
><br>
> Could . . . Would . . . this happen?<br>
><br>
> (jus’ curious)<br>
<br>
<br>
Not constitutionally.  There are time limits on one person's service as <br>
president, and the separation of powers to the states for setting dates <br>
for elections of senators, representatives, and to the electoral college <br>
to achieve election results in time for winners to begin their new terms <br>
at the constitutionally mandated dates. This means that no president may <br>
extend terms of office beyond the two now allowed without constitutional <br>
amendments approved by three-quarters of the states.<br>
<br>
Despite the fact that Vladimir Putin is now allowed to rule Russia until <br>
2036, Donald Trump is allowed to be president of the United States of <br>
America until noon on January 20, 2021, unless individual and electoral <br>
college voters allow him a second term, which would end, according to <br>
the current U.S. constitution, January 20, 2025.<br>
<br>
If Trump wanted to cancel elections for president and vice president, <br>
the House of Representatives would choose a president, and the Senate <br>
would choose a vice-president to serve until the next set of elections <br>
to be held to choose officers and electors to meet the next <br>
constitutionally-mandated set of terms of office.  Trump's fantasies <br>
about following Chinese and Russian leaders into an American presidency <br>
for life are just that -- fantasies.  Yes, one might fantasize a <br>
dystopia with appropriate constitutional amendments in place, but I <br>
doubt even horror writers such as Stephen King would attempt such a <br>
fiction.  Not only are horror writers unlikely to write such fiction, <br>
voters are even more unlikely to approve such constitutional amendments.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ken<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>   <div style="height:auto;width:auto">   <div> <div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt"><div><span style="font-size:13.3333px">A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. </span><br style="font-size:13.3333px"><br style="font-size:13.3333px"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">-Greek proverb</span></div><div><br>
“Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. 
Immaturity is the inability to use one’s understanding without guidance 
from another. This immaturity is self- imposed when its cause lies not 
in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it 
without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! ‘Have courage to use your 
own understand-ing!—that is the motto of enlightenment.<br>
<br>
--Immanuel Kant<br>
<br><br></div></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>