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<p>Roger is a pretty smart guy. He will research this, not be
suckered by the smoke and mirrors, and figure it out! He isn't
really a "march in lockstep" sort like some others on the
political right.....Having respect for the Office of the President
means calling into question a president who has no respect for the
office!<br>
</p>
<p>Debi R-S<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/7/2017 12:45 PM, Saundra Lund
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Roger,
is this the article you are referring to?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">The
article <b>does not state</b> that Manafort was wire tapped
in Trump Towers but rather that some of his Russian contacts
were under surveillance. If you, me, or anyone else has
contact with foreign operatives under legitimate
surveillance by US intelligence agencies, our communications
with those targets will – hopefully – be captured, whether
we are in Trump Tower or not. That is a <b>far, far</b>
different thing than claiming you or I were the <b>subject</b>
of a wire tapped.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Oh,
and Trump Tower is <b>not</b> mentioned in the article at
all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I’m
not sure where your misunderstanding comes from, but I have
seen that incorrect spin from several biased sources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">With
the rise of the dangerous alt-right and Trump’s “alternative
facts” nonsense, it’s incumbent on each of us to work
diligently to avoid being suckered.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">HTH,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Saundra<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
moral test of government is how it treats those who are
in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the
twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the
shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the
handicapped.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">~
Hubert Horatio Humphrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>lfalen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Gier <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ngier006@gmail.com"><ngier006@gmail.com></a>;
vision2020 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Trump can be impeached for
his charge about Obama Wire Tapping<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not know if the Obama
administration wire taped Trump or not. The New York
Time in January had an article that said The Obama
Administration Wire taped Monafort in the Trump Tower.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is this true or not. If it false,
what is their liability?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Roger <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #777777
2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-----Original
Message----- <br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Trump can be impeached for his
charge about Obama Wire Tapping <br>
From: "Nicholas Gier" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ngier006@gmail.com">ngier006@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
To: vision2020 <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
Date: 03/07/17 18:14:10 <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:150%;background:#FAFAFA;vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/trump-s-wiretap-tweets-raise-risk-of-impeachment"><span
style="color:black">www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/trump-s-wiretap-tweets-raise-risk-of-impeachment</span>
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:3.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Trump's
Wiretap Tweets Raise Risk of Impeachment</span>
</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase;letter-spacing:1.2pt">MARCH
6, 2017 1:42 PM EST</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">By
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bloomberg.com/view/contributors/AFZ_b1F72Xw/noah-feldman"><span
style="color:black">Noah Feldman</span> </a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
sitting president <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-04/trump-calls-obama-sick-claims-trump-tower-was-wiretapped"><span
style="color:black">has accused</span> </a>his
predecessor of an act that could have gotten the
past president impeached. That's not your ordinary
exercise of free speech. If the accusation were
true, and President Barack Obama ordered a
warrantless wiretap of Donald Trump during the
campaign, the scandal would be of Watergate-level
proportions.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">But
if the allegation is not true and is unsupported
by evidence, that too should be a scandal on a
major scale. This is the kind of accusation that,
taken as part of a broader course of conduct,
could get the current president impeached. We
shouldn't care that the allegation was made early
on a Saturday morning on Twitter.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
basic premise of the First Amendment is that truth
should defeat her opposite number. "Let her and
Falsehood grapple," wrote the poet and politician
John Milton, "who ever knew Truth put to the worse
in a free and open encounter?"</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">But
this rather optimistic adage only accounts for
speech and debate between citizens. It doesn't
apply to accusations made by the government. Those
are something altogether different.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">In
a rule of law society, government allegations of
criminal activity must be followed by proof and
prosecution. If not, the government is ruling by
innuendo.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Shadowy
dictatorships can do that because there is no need
for proof. Democracies can't.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Thus,
an accusation by a president isn't like an
accusation leveled by one private citizen against
another. It's about more than factual truth or
carelessness.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
government's special responsibility has two bases.
One is that you can't sue the government for false
and defamatory speech. If I accused Obama of
wiretapping my phone, he could sue me for libel.
If my statement was knowingly false, I'd have to
pay up. On the other hand, if the president makes
the same statement, he can't be sued in his
official capacity. And a private libel suit mostly
likely wouldn't go anywhere against a sitting
president -- for <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-11/supreme-court-never-imagined-a-litigant-like-president-trump"><span
style="color:black">good reason</span> </a>,
because the president shouldn't be encumbered by
lawsuits while in office.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
second reason the government has to be careful
about making unprovable allegations is that its
bully pulpit is greater than any other. True, as
an ex-president, Obama can defend himself publicly
and has plenty of access to the news media. But
even he doesn't have the audience that Trump now
has. And essentially any other citizen would have
far less capacity to mount a defense than Obama.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">For
these reasons, it's a mistake to say simply that
Trump's accusation against Obama is protected by
the First Amendment.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">False
and defamatory speech isn't protected by the First
Amendment.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">And
an allegation of potentially criminal misconduct
made without evidence is itself a form of serious
misconduct by the government official who makes
it.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">When
candidate Trump said Hillary Clinton was a
criminal who belonged in prison, he was exposing
himself to a libel suit. And the suit might not
have succeeded, because Trump could have said he
was making a political argument rather than an
allegation of fact.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">But
when President Trump accuses Obama of an act that
would have been impeachable and possibly criminal,
that's something much more serious than libel. If
it isn't true or provable, it's misconduct by the
highest official of the executive branch.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">How
is such misconduct by an official to be addressed?
There's a common-law tort of malicious
prosecution, but that probably doesn't apply when
the government official has no intention to
prosecute.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
answer is that the constitutional remedy for
presidential misconduct is impeachment.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">That
would have been the correct remedy if Obama had
"ordered" a wiretap of the Republican presidential
candidate's phones. The president has no such
legal authority. Only a court can order a domestic
wiretap, and that only after a showing of probable
cause by the Department of Justice and the Federal
Bureau of Investigation.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Breaking
the law by tapping Trump's phones would have been
an abuse of executive power that implicated the
democratic process itself. Impeachment is the
remedy for such a serious abuse of the executive
office.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">That
includes abuse of office in the form of serious
accusations against political opponents if they
turn out to be false and made without evidence.
These, too, deform the democratic process.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">The
Constitution speaks of impeachment for "high
crimes and misdemeanors." A lot of ink has been
spilled over these words, which date back at least
to impeachment <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.brepolsonline.net/doi/abs/10.1484/J.MSS.3.1152"><span
style="color:black">proceedings</span> </a>in
the 14th century. This isn't the place for a
detailed analysis.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Suffice
it to say that what makes crimes "high" is that
they pertain to the exercise of government office.
That's exactly what accusations by the executive
are: actions that take on their distinctive
meaning because they are made by government
officials.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">What's
more, government acts that distort and undercut
the democratic process are especially serious and
worthy of impeachment. The Watergate break-in to
the Democratic National Committee headquarters was
part of an effort to steal the 1972 election. A
wiretap of Trump's campaign would've had political
implications.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">And
accusing the past Democratic president of an
impeachable offense is every bit as harmful to
democracy, assuming it isn't true. Obama is the
best-known and most popular Democrat in the
country. The effect of attacking him isn't just to
weaken him personally, but to weaken the political
opposition to Trump's administration.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black">Given
how great the executive's power is, accusations by
the president can't be treated asymmetrically. If
the alleged action would be impeachable if true,
so must be the allegation if false. Anything else
would give the president the power to distort
democracy by calling his opponents criminals
without ever having to prove it.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">A
society grows great when old men
plant trees whose shade they
know they shall never sit in. <br>
<br>
-Greek proverb </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
"Enlightenment is man's
emergence from his self-imposed
immaturity. Immaturity is the
inability to use one's
understanding without guidance
from another. This immaturity is
self- imposed when its cause
lies not in lack of
understanding, but in lack of
resolve and courage to use it
without guidance from another.
Sapere Aude! 'Have courage to
use your own
understand-ing!-that is the
motto of enlightenment. <br>
<br>
--Immanuel Kant <br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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align="center">
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<pre wrap="">=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
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