<div dir="ltr">That's basically my question. My common sense tells me that having debts larger than what we can even make in a year is a bad idea. Weren't we all rabidly complaining about this under Bush II? What if they start selling oil in euros? What if the dollar takes a nosedive for some other reason? Hell, a quick Google shows that there are 117,538,000 households in the US. Why not spend another 1.17538 trillion and give us all a check for $10,000? Or spend $11.7538 trillion and give us all $100,000? Why not cut the fat in our budget just as a matter of principle? <br><br>Paul<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Sunil <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" target="_blank">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">Paul,<br><br>What economic theories are used to analyze those questions? What are the competing viewpoints? On what basis should we decide whether we should sleep at night?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><hr>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:54:04 -0800<br>From: <a href="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><div><div class="h5"><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] yay! we passed $18 trillion!<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div>Is there a number past which we should be worried when it comes to our national debt? Estimates put the GDP for the US at $17.416 trillion (<a href="http://www.statista.com/statistics/263591/gross-domestic-product-gdp-of-the-united-states/" target="_blank">http://www.statista.com/statistics/263591/gross-domestic-product-gdp-of-the-united-states/</a>). Is it smart to have our national debt be larger than our gross domestic product? Is there a line past which we shouldn't sleep so soundly at night? The national debt has gone up $2 billion since I looked at it two days ago. When do we hit the number beyond which it is dangerous to have that much debt as a nation? Whatever the number is when the Republicans take control?<br><br></div>Paul<br></div><div><br><div>On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Gier, Nicholas (<a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a>) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Hi Ron,<br>
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Thanks for the correction. I'll sleep easier tonight.<br>
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nfg (guess what one of my mean teenage bosses made the "f" into)<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Ron Force <<a href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" target="_blank">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 10:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gier, Nicholas (<a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a>); Paul Rumelhart<div><div><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Moscow Vision 2020<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] yay! we passed $18 trillion!</div></div></font>
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<div dir="ltr"><span>Only a third of US debt is owned by foreign countries--China and Japan each have 7%. 65% is held domestically: Social Security (16%), other government entities
(13%) and the Federal Reserve (12%).</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/10/28/who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt/" target="_blank">Who Owns The Most U.S. Debt?</a><br>
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<div style="width:168px" align="center"><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/10/28/who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important" target="_blank"><img alt="image" style="display:block" src="http://blogs-images.forbes.com/mikepatton/files/2014/10/US-Debt-Ownership-Foreign-Domestic.jpg" height="102" width="168"></a></div>
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<span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/10/28/who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">Who
Owns The Most U.S. Debt?</span></a>
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The U.S. debt continues to climb. Who owns the majority of it? How much is owned by foreign nations? The answers might surprise you.</div>
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<div>Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 9:51 PM, "Gier, Nicholas (<a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a>)" <<a href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target="_blank">ngier@uidaho.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>Hi Don and Others,</div>
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<div>The debt tripled under Reagan, and his advisers were wise to convince him to raise taxes in 7 years of his 8-year term. I posted all of the data here on the Vision. See all of my columns on Reagan at
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.nickgier.com/" target="_blank">
http://www.NickGier.com/ReagamPage.htm.</a> For debt for each president see <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.nickgier.com/DebtGOPObamaTables.pdf" target="_blank">
http://www.NickGier.com/DebtGOPObamaTables.pdf.</a> As I wrote in a recent column, Reagan and Bush II borrowed money to wage one unnecessary cold war and two hot wars, and Obama borrowed money at near zero interest rates to save the economy and gave 8 million
plus people health insurance. By 2021, the two largest items on the national debt will be Iraq and Afghan wars and the loss of revenue due to the Great Recession.
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<div>Japan's debt is 200% of GDP, but they owe it all to themselves. The problem with our debt is that the Chinese and other sovereign wealth funds (e.g., Norway and Saudi Arabia) own a great deal of it.
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<div>nfg<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> <<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>> on behalf of Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 7:18 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Ron Force<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Moscow Vision 2020<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] yay! we passed $18 trillion!</font>
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<div>Well, I'm not an economist. I do think that $18 trillion is perhaps both feet across the ridiculous line, though.
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<div>There are a lot of things about how the system works that I find strange. For example, I googled how much cash there is in circulation at the moment. According to this link (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm" target="_blank">http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm</a>),
there is roughly $1.29 trillion in circulation, with $1.25 trillion of that being in the form of Federal Reserve Notes. So it's all just smoke and mirrors anyway.<br clear="none">
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<div>Hopefully our currency will stay strong on the international stage, otherwise we will probably be having quite a different conversation.<br clear="none">
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<div>And I know the idea is old-fashioned, but maybe we should be looking closer at how much bang we are getting for our buck instead of just adding some more to a fictitious number somewhere and hoping it will all sort itself out sometime.<br clear="none">
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Paul<br clear="none">
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<div>On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ron Force <span dir="ltr">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" target="_blank">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><span>And this is a problem...because? <br clear="none">
Debt for a sovereign government that issues its own currency and has the power to tax is different from an individual or a government that doesn't have its own currency (ie, Greece). Read here:</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.rooseveltinstitute.org/new-roosevelt/federal-budget-not-household-budget-here-s-why" target="_blank">The Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget: Here’s Why | Roosevelt Institute</a><br clear="none">
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.rooseveltinstitute.org/new-roosevelt/federal-budget-not-household-budget-here-s-why" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">The
Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget: Here’s Why | Roosevelt Institute</span></a>
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The Federal Budget is NOT like a Household Budget: Here’s Why L. Randall Wray takes the fear and loathing out of understanding federal budget deficits.
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on <span style="font-weight:bold">www.rooseveltinstitute.org</span></span></span></a></div>
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<div dir="ltr"> It's the same thing my Econ 101 professor taught back in the last century.</div>
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<div>Ron Force<br clear="none">
Moscow Idaho USA</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Monday, December 8, 2014 3:29 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>I hadn't looked at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://usdebtclock.org/" target="_blank">
http://usdebtclock.org</a> for a while, and just noticed that we passed the $18 trillion dollar mark. I'm not sure exactly when we crossed it.<br clear="none">
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<div>Perhaps we should be doing something about this.<br clear="none">
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