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<div dir="ltr">Hi Saundra,<br><br>I think my earlier email may establish that I should not write early in the morning, when I'm at my grumpiest. My apologies for my tone.<br><br>I disagree with your definition of violence as I think it includes acts that aren't violent. I think violence is the actual use of force on another. <br><br>'<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">So,
if, for instance, a parent refused to provide food for a child and kept
all food under lock & key -- or kept the child under lock and key
-- to keep the child from getting food, I’d call that a violent crime.'<br><br>I don't think this is a violent crime, particularly where the food is kept under lock and key. </span><br><br>'<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Or,
if the parent refused to feed the child and kept the child away from
food by threatening to beat the crap out of said child if the child went
into the kitchen to get food, I’d also consider that a crime of
violence.'<br><br>This example at least carries the threat of violence. <br><br>'</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I
would not consider it a crime of violence (at least by any individual)
if everyone in household is starving because there’s no money for food.
I also wouldn’t consider it a violent crime if all members of a
household only have access to rotten food. I would, however, consider
it a violent crime if, for instance, all other household members have
safe food and one is only given unsafe rotten food.'</span><br><br>Again I think your definition is far too expansive. Without the threat of, or actual use of violence, I can't see how this is a violent crime. <br><br><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">'If
a victim had been a child who had been starved to death over a
prolonged period of time, would you not consider that a crime of
violence? If not, why not? Would you find it appropriate for the
parents to be charged with simple abuse or neglect when the child died
because they hadn’t fed the child while making sure they themselves had
ample nutrition?'</span><br><br>I would not. I think violent crimes require the use or threat of force, and that's absent in this last example too. I don't think the term 'violent' retains any meaning if you use it in these ways. I've dealt with crimes that involved shooting or stabbings or beatings, with fists or with weapons. That's violence. You're using the word in cases where those things don't happen, and I can't agree with that at all. Yes, I think the parents would be charged under the Injury to Child statute in this example.<br><br>'<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">No
one is talking about making bar fights hanging offenses, but when
there’s a substantial perception locally, on the state level, and/or on a
national level that the criminal justice is failing victims and
survivors of violent crime, that’s a significant issue. Don’t shoot the
messenger.'<br><br>I don't know how substantial that perception is. I know it's yours, but I also think your definition is so expansive that your definition of violent crime includes crimes that I think most people, certainly who work in the system, would not define as violent. <br><br>I see accusations that the local prosecutor undercharges crimes, and I can't agree with you at all. That's not what I saw, and I don't think it's changed since 2010. Why would they give up leverage?<br><br>Sunil<br> <br></span><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Washington man set on fire by wife now faces sex crime charge<br>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:08:58 -0700<br><br><style><!--
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--></style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Hi Sunil,</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Actually, I understand bail isn’t to be used as punishment, as I mentioned in a previous post on this topic. Thanks, though, for the ABA info – it’s helpful, at least for me, to see something boiled down to essential elements. There’s quite a bit of subjectivity, it seems to me. Does Idaho or Latah County have a bail schedule?</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Do you have any definition you can share for what a crime of violence is? I was going off something I recall reading back in my victim advocate days (not in Idaho) back in the Dark Ages where force or threat of force was a component, although I don’t recall where that definition came from. Does that no longer hold? </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">So, if, for instance, a parent refused to provide food for a child and kept all food under lock & key -- or kept the child under lock and key -- to keep the child from getting food, I’d call that a violent crime. Or, if the parent refused to feed the child and kept the child away from food by threatening to beat the crap out of said child if the child went into the kitchen to get food, I’d also consider that a crime of violence.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I would not consider it a crime of violence (at least by any individual) if everyone in household is starving because there’s no money for food. I also wouldn’t consider it a violent crime if all members of a household only have access to rotten food. I would, however, consider it a violent crime if, for instance, all other household members have safe food and one is only given unsafe rotten food.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">If a victim had been a child who had been starved to death over a prolonged period of time, would you not consider that a crime of violence? If not, why not? Would you find it appropriate for the parents to be charged with simple abuse or neglect when the child died because they hadn’t fed the child while making sure they themselves had ample nutrition?</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I appreciate your perspective, Sunil, as one who is far more familiar with the criminal justice system in general and in Latah County specifically.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I would point out, however, that the perspective of survivors of violent crime, and the perspectives of loved ones when the victim(s) survived or didn’t survive, is likely to be different than yours. Even here in Latah County.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">No one is talking about making bar fights hanging offenses, but when there’s a substantial perception locally, on the state level, and/or on a national level that the criminal justice is failing victims and survivors of violent crime, that’s a significant issue. Don’t shoot the messenger.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Saundra</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Moscow, ID</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sunil<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 04, 2014 6:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> vision 2020<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Washington man set on fire by wife now faces sex crime charge</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">Saundra,<br><br>The Moscow crime was not a violent crime. If you are really comparing this crime to setting a man on fire, then I'm - to use your word - gobsmacked. That's an absolutely absurd comparison.<br><br>Your sample is small and to make sweeping conclusions about the system may play well here, but is completely off. There are problems with the system, but this isn't one of them in Latah. In some parts of the state, I think high bails are the problem. It's certainly easier for a judge to set bail excessively high, and avoid yelling like we've seen for this case, than to do his or her job correctly.<br><br>I think the problem is that you and Tom want bail used as punishment. These are the factors that are to be considered; emphasis is mine:<br><br>From the ABA:</p><h2>'Steps in a Trial</h2><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><strong>Bail</strong><br>Bail is the amount of money defendants must post to be released from custody until their trial. Bail is not a fine. <b>It is not supposed to be used as punishment</b>. The purpose of bail is simply to ensure that defendants will appear for trial and all pretrial hearings for which they must be present. Bail is returned to defendants when their trial is over, in some states minus a processing fee.<br>The judge or magistrate decides the amount of bail by weighing many factors:</p><ul><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">the risk of the defendant fleeing,</li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">the type of crime alleged,</li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">the "dangerousness" of defendants, and</li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">the safety of the community.</li></ul><p class="ecxMsoNormal">Sometimes bail is conditioned on certain behavior of the defendant - for example, that he or she have no contact with the alleged victim.'<br><br>The state had seven months to review the evidence in this case. I worked against that office for five years, and I have not known them to undercharge cases. It may suit the motives of people to make that claim, but it's not based on actual knowledge. <br><br>Sunil</p><div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-align:center;" align="center"><hr id="ecxstopSpelling" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">From: <a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:14:54 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Washington man set on fire by wife now faces sex crime charge</p><div><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Huh – I didn’t see bail mentioned in the article, but if it is $500,000, that leaves me even more confused about the low bail amounts for the two who allegedly <b>starved a veteran to death</b> over a prolonged period of time. One of the two is a convicted felon who has numerous probation violations (and several other alleged bad acts that he wasn’t violated for) including moving without notifying his PO.</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I know the WA case is a sample of only one, but could it be that WA takes violent crimes – even against alleged child molesters – seriously while ID doesn’t?</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Honestly, the more criminal cases I’ve looked at in Idaho (which I freely admit is just a drop in the bucket), the more it seems to me the so-called criminal justice system here really is FUBAR, at least when the victim/survivor is a person rather than property. The judicial branch’s actions remind me of those lazy bad parents who always threaten to lower the boom but never really follow through. Is it any wonder, then, recidivism rates are so high?</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Saundra Lund</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Moscow, ID</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">It's a matter of taking the side if the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done.</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">~ Harriet Beecher Stowe</span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="ecxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Dredge<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 03, 2014 2:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> viz<br><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] Washington man set on fire by wife now faces sex crime charge</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxmsonormal"> </p><div><p class="ecxmsonormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Apparently the wife's bail is set at $500,000.<br><br>'...detectives said they are recommending that [the crispy creep] be charged with first-degree child molestation.'<br><br><a href="http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-Man-set-on-fire-by-wife-now-faces-sex-crime-charges-269377691.html" target="_blank">http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-Man-set-on-fire-by-wife-now-faces-sex-crime-charges-269377691.html</a></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> =======================================================</p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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