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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
My apologies, I didn't clue into the fact that you were the
dependent on my first read through. <br>
<br>
I used to work as the main programmer in HR and Payroll for a
number of years (this was six or seven years ago that I left, I
think). I did a lot of the programming involving open enrollment
for benefits at that time, including doing much of the work on the
various incarnations of the vandal web pages that we used to have
where you could choose your plan and your dependents and whatnot
before we outsourced it. I can't be sure because it's been a few
years, but I thought the amount a person had on their employer
deduction (HI7, if I remember correctly) varied based on which
plan they were on and whether or not they had dependents. I could
be wrong about that, though, and they could have of course
completely changed their policies since then anyway.<br>
<br>
At any rate, I take your point that the employer may not pay very
much, if anything, towards the actual cost of the insurance for
employees let alone their dependents. <br>
<br>
I don't know if Hobby Lobby pays anything towards their employee's
health care or not. Maybe we should find out before we accuse
them of having no skin in the game.<br>
<br>
I don't know what Constitutional right you think is being violated
here. The end result is that they don't have to offer one of four
contraceptives on their health care plan that they object to.
There is no Constitutional right that I'm aware that says that
your employer must provide those specific items on their plan.
The employee will have to find some other way to pay for them if
they need to use them. Just like anything else that isn't covered
by the plan.<br>
<br>
Also, thank you for implying that if I don't agree with you then I
must be misinformed, insensitive, or stupid.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/02/2014 11:19 AM, Saundra Lund wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To
recap:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">It's
subsidized by everyone who pays into it, plus what the
employer pays.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
response was that your statement is incorrect:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“The
last time I checked, <b>my husband and I </b>paid 100% of
the cost of <b>my</b> health insurance through the UI, and
that’s the way it was for all state employees the last time
I checked. That’s been the trend, too, with private sector
employer-based health insurance for a <b>number of years</b>,
as well as eroding the percentage of employer subsidy for
the employee. Indeed, there are more than a few employers
who offer absolutely no health insurance subsidy for
employees – their position is that their “subsidy” is
allowing the employee the benefit of being a part of a
larger group that gets a lower rate.</span>”<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You
further responded:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span>In
response to your question, when I look at my latest pay stub
(posted for the 3rd of June), I see a line item for "<span
class="fieldformattext">Employer Contribution for
Benefits". It's about $350 in my case, paid by the employer
per biweek.”</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes,
that is the UI’s contribution to the <b>employee’s</b>
benefits. There is <b>no employer subsidy</b> for the
health benefits of spouses and/or dependents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So,
we’re back to my assertion that your initial statement was
incorrect and my request that you quit making false
statements, yes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Further,
assuming that Hobby Lobby operates the same way (a
relatively safe bet), then how can you defend the SCOTUS
decision <b>where HL has no skin in the game</b>; that is,
there is <b>no employer financial contribution</b> to the
coverage they claim to find personally objectionable?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You
seem to be advocating a position that necessarily involves
trampling the Constitutional rights of women that are
completely and wholly unrelated to any aspect of employment
“just because” the employer finds those Constitutional
protections objectionable. In this instance, your are
placing a higher value on what you perceive to be the
religious freedom of a for-profit business at the expense of
the Constitutional rights of actual real-life people (in
this instance, women), which is completely at odds with your
stated positions. You are, essentially, advocating a
position where the Constitutional rights of those with
economic power (in this instance, employers) trumps the
Constitutional and legal protections guaranteed to
individuals <b>regardless of economic power</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And,
if you don’t understand the chilling consequences of such a
stance, then I can only conclude you’ve not truly exercised
your critical thinking skills and/or are intentionally
ignoring the very real concerns being discussed by those who
know far more than your or I will ever know about medicine
and the law. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saundra<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Paul Rumelhart [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Saundra Lund; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
It's statements like these that I'm objecting to:<br>
<br>
"<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">...of
course it’s of no consequence to <b>you</b> that..."</span><br>
<br>
"...<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">but
it’s good to know you belong in the “tyranny of the
bigots” category..."<br>
<br>
"...why on earth should you care that</span>..."<br>
<br>
Are they really necessary? Can't we discuss the issues
without getting personal?<br>
<br>
In response to your question, when I look at my latest pay
stub (posted for the 3rd of June), I see a line item for "<span
class="fieldformattext">Employer Contribution for
Benefits". It's about $350 in my case, paid by the
employer per biweek.</span> I also see employer amounts
for "Pre-Tax Health Savings Account" (their match for the
amount I'm putting in my HSA), and "Long" and "Short Term
Disability Coverage". Also Medicare, but all employers have
to pay FHI if I remember correctly.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/01/2014 01:44 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
was hoping we could actually discuss your thinking without
you playing your predictable “why is everybody always
picking on me” card to avoid discussing statements you
make that you want us to just blindly accept. I don’t
think pointing out the flaws, limitations, and obvious
conclusions of your thinking are personal insults, but I’m
sorry if your sensitivities made you feel as though they
were because that wasn’t my intention.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Just
as, I assume, you weren’t intending to personally insult
those of us with concerns about guns on campus by calling
our concerns “irrational fears,” or a lot of other
comments you’ve made that might have felt like personal
attacks if you were on the receiving end. What’s that
saying? Something about people in glass houses . . . </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So,
let’s try this <b>one</b> point again:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">It's
subsidized by everyone who pays into it, plus what the
employer pays.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
response is that your statement is incorrect:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“The
last time I checked, <b>my husband and I </b>paid 100%
of the cost of <b>my</b> health insurance through the UI,
and that’s the way it was for all state employees the last
time I checked. That’s been the trend, too, with private
sector employer-based health insurance for a <b>number of
years</b>, as well as eroding the percentage of employer
subsidy for the employee. Indeed, there are more than a
few employers who offer absolutely no health insurance
subsidy for employees – their position is that their
“subsidy” is allowing the employee the benefit of being a
part of a larger group that gets a lower rate.</span>”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
say you?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saundra</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Paul Rumelhart [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 1:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Saundra Lund; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point,
perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Well, I was hoping we could discuss this without the
personal insults. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/01/2014 12:21 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">It's
subsidized by everyone who pays into it, plus what the
employer pays.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Boy,
you sure are out of touch with how modern employer-based
health insurance is paid! Keep current, Paul, rather
than disseminate long outdated sound bites. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
last time I checked, <b>my husband and I </b>paid 100%
of the cost of <b>my</b> health insurance through the
UI, and that’s the way it was for all state employees
the last time I checked. That’s been the trend, too,
with private sector employer-based health insurance for
a <b>number of years</b>, as well as eroding the
percentage of employer subsidy for the employee.
Indeed, there are more than a few employers who offer
absolutely no health insurance subsidy for employees –
their position is that their “subsidy” is allowing the
employee the benefit of being a part of a larger group
that gets a lower rate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul
also wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">I
don't see a problem with a small group of "close-knit"
people with similar beliefs objecting to something they
feel goes against their religious beliefs.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Of
course you don’t, but it’s good to know you belong in
the “tyranny of the bigots” category that thinks that
anyone should be able to impose their religious beliefs
on those with different beliefs, which certainly
contradicts a lot of the positions you’ve stated on
V2020. I’m in the category of thinking that people are
free to believe whatever they want, but they don’t have
the right to force their religious beliefs on me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Too,
why on earth should you care that about 90% of companies
in America responsible for employing approximately 52%
of working Americans qualify as “small closely-held”
companies that can now use wholly false religious
bigotry to deny access to necessary health care for
female employees and employees with female family
members? That may be the America you want to live in,
but it isn’t the one the majority of Americans want to
live in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul
also wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Especially
when the consequence is to pay for a specific
contraceptive yourself.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once
again, your gender ignorance and economic insensitivity
would be stunning had you not exhibited them so many
times before.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes,
the American way is to force female crime victims to
bear the cost of being raped by men, isn’t it, Paul, and
that religious American ideal should be preserved at all
costs, shouldn’t it? It’s also the American way
relegate “immoral” women to forced breeder status when
they have sex, isn’t it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And,
of course it’s of no consequence to <b>you</b> that the
cost of an IUD for women for whom that form of birth
control is most appropriate is about a month’s wage for
lower paid employees without health insurance . . . or
for plans that exclude coverage for women. That may be
economically feasible for <b>you</b> since <b>you</b>
don’t fall into that category, but here’s a news flash
for you: that is as financially impossible for many
women, particularly women who have children to feed
& clothe. Yet you find it appropriate for religious
bigots to punish women & children in an attempt to
coerce “moral” behavior out of those uppity women.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Of
course, a viable alternative <b>might have been</b> to
direct those women to non-profit family planning clinics
like Planned Parenthood where contraceptives are more
affordable. At least, that <b>might</b> have been a
viable alternative before the Religious Right started
its war on women. Oops – guess that’s not a viable
alternative for a lot of women anymore.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saundra</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Moscow,
ID</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Our
lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 9:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sunil; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point,
perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Yes,
you're right. It's not free. It's subsidized by
everyone who pays into it, plus what the employer
pays. I don't see a problem with a small group of
"close-knit" people with similar beliefs objecting
to something they feel goes against their religious
beliefs. Especially when the consequence is to pay
for a specific contraceptive yourself. It's not
like they are objecting to open-heart surgery.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Is
having the ability to get health care in general
from your employer a basic human right? Is the
ability to have your contraceptives in general or
the "morning after" pill in specific as a part of
your health plan offered at work a basic human
right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Sunil <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:22 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point,
perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="yiv2627067231">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Paul,<br>
<br>
Is your UI healthcare free or is it part
of your employment compensation?<br>
<br>
Sunil</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Date:
Tue, 1 Jul 2014 08:03:00 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point,
perhaps.<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv2627067231yqt76318">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Which
right is being restricted, a woman's
right to free contraceptives?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="1"
width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Sunil <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> vision 2020 <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 1,
2014 6:07 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020]
A fine point, perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
id="yiv2627067231ecxyiv6613980888">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">I
couldn't disagree more. <br>
<br>
Roe recognized a woman's
right to privacy. Hobby
Lobby creates religious
rights for legal fictions,
and restricts the rights
of flesh-and-blood people.
HL is not about
restricting the power of
government and it's naive
to think that's its
objective. If the
government were
restricting birth control,
as it once did, this
majority would have no
objection to that exercise
of government power.<br>
<br>
Sunil</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center"
size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014
01:20:24 -0600<br>
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] A fine
point, perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
id="yiv2627067231ecxyiv6613980888yqt76022">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Comparing
Burwell v Hobby to
Roe v Wade I don't
see inconsistency in
rulings. In both
cases the rulings
restricted the power
of the government.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center"
size="2"
width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a><br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun
2014 17:14:44
-0700<br>
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] A
fine point,
perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Great
points, Rose,
and I’m afraid
I agree with
your
assessment.
Thank you for
pointing out
the obvious
even if it’s
uncomfortable
some.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It’s
long past time
for SCOTUS to
have to adhere
to the same
code of ethics
federal judges
must adhere
to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saundra</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Rosemary
Huskey<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday, June
30, 2014 2:49
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
[Vision2020] A
fine point,
perhaps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Bias,
or perhaps I
should say, a
predisposition,
to adopt a
certain
philosophical
approach to
legal issues
may be shaped
by private
values that we
trust and hold
dear. In
light of the
Supreme Court
decision
supporting the
Hobby Lobby
owners refusal
to provide
forms of birth
control they
claim to be at
odds with
their
religious
beliefs, I
wondered if
the court was
persuaded not
by legal
arguments but
by their own
religious
affiliations.
Were any of
the five male
justices
associated
with religious
groups that
uphold the
doctrine of
patriarchy,
i.e., do they
attend
churches that
deny women
ministerial or
priesthood
roles. Guess
what? Justice
Roberts,
Justice
Scalia,
Justice
Thomas, and
Justice Alito
are Roman
Catholic. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">In
contrast, when
the decision
concerning Roe
v Wade was
announced in
1973 eight of
the nine male
justices were
members of
main stream
Protestant
churches.
There may or
may not be a
direct
correlation
between
religion
affiliation
and legal
opinions, but
it is my firm
belief that
unearned
gender
privilege
nurtured in
the cradle,
and deferred
to in the
church
certainly
creates an
atmosphere
that
celebrates and
bestows unique
privilege for
male members.
And, what
could possibly
more be
patriarchal
than
controlling
women’s
reproductive
choices?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Rose
Huskey</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
=======================================================
List services made
available by First
Step Internet,
serving the
communities of the
Palouse since
1994. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
=======================================================
List services made
available by First Step
Internet, serving the
communities of the
Palouse since 1994. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="yiv2627067231ecxyqt90270">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">=======================================================<br>
List services made available
by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net/"
target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="yqt20734">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> List services made available by First Step Internet,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> List services made available by First Step Internet,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
</blockquote>
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