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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And, by what means can a court, or an employer distinguish between really believing vs fakey believing? For example, a closely held company invests in corporations that produce medication or devices that prevent conception. Let’s identify that company as <a href="http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers">Hobby Lobby</a>. (Please read the link). Do you suppose that their recent law suit was related to actual moral objections? Did they suddenly starting giving a hoot about the issue two years ago? Or, do you think that their law suit might have political objectives? If past actions are any indication they have (by their own recently adopted standards) loosey goosey ethics. And, because the medical community (who actually know more about the medicine than the judges, the attorneys, and the Green Family) does not considered the medication or devices <a href="http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/what-abortifacient-and-what-it-isnt">abortifacient</a>, why were the opinion of experts ignored in favor of a conservative political agenda? In the meantime, since we can only guess at the intensity of a religious commitment – I call out the Green family as hypocritical political opportunists and the five justices as patriarchal jackasses. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Rose Huskey<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 10:14 AM<br><b>To:</b> Rosemary Huskey; 'Gary Crabtree'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'vision 2020'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>By "legitimate" I mean they really believe it, as opposed to those that just say they do in order to get out of having to pay for something. I'm not sure how you test for it, though.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm not a theologian, so I'll skip the second question. Is it pertinent?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Rosemary Huskey <<a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> 'Paul Rumelhart' <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>; 'Gary Crabtree' <<a href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> 'vision 2020' <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:53 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv6496681690><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hey Paul, </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Help me to understand what a “legitimate” religious belief means. Can one have an illegitimate religious belief? And, further, explain why/how one religious belief trumps another.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rose</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv6496681690yqt05015><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 9:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> Gary Crabtree<br><b>Cc:</b> vision 2020<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Yep, that seems to be how it's looked at. That's one of the reasons I'm such a pariah on this list, I think. From my perspective, both major parties are far on the statist side of the statist / individualist axis. I'm on the individualist side, which is why I'm wondering why someone can't just pay for their own contraceptives if their employer objects to having it on their company's health care plan for legitimate religious reasons.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Paul</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Gary Crabtree <<a href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> Sunil <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" target="_blank">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>; vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:55 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv6496681690><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Mr. Rumelhart please, from the statist perspective it's only a right if it can in some way be inflicted on someone else. Either by making others pay for it or by forcing the participation of those who would otherwise demure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>g<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id=yiv6496681690yqt93064><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Which right is being restricted, a woman's right to free contraceptives?</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Paul</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Sunil <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" target="_blank">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 1, 2014 6:07 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I couldn't disagree more. <br><br>Roe recognized a woman's right to privacy. Hobby Lobby creates religious rights for legal fictions, and restricts the rights of flesh-and-blood people. HL is not about restricting the power of government and it's naive to think that's its objective. If the government were restricting birth control, as it once did, this majority would have no objection to that exercise of government power.<br><br>Sunil<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>; <a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com" target="_blank">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 01:20:24 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Comparing Burwell v Hobby to Roe v Wade I don't see inconsistency in rulings. In both cases the rulings restricted the power of the government.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: <a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com" target="_blank">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:14:44 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Great points, Rose, and I’m afraid I agree with your assessment. Thank you for pointing out the obvious even if it’s uncomfortable some.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>It’s long past time for SCOTUS to have to adhere to the same code of ethics federal judges must adhere to.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Saundra<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rosemary Huskey<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 30, 2014 2:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bias, or perhaps I should say, a predisposition, to adopt a certain philosophical approach to legal issues may be shaped by private values that we trust and hold dear. In light of the Supreme Court decision supporting the Hobby Lobby owners refusal to provide forms of birth control they claim to be at odds with their religious beliefs, I wondered if the court was persuaded not by legal arguments but by their own religious affiliations. Were any of the five male justices associated with religious groups that uphold the doctrine of patriarchy, i.e., do they attend churches that deny women ministerial or priesthood roles. Guess what? Justice Roberts, Justice Scalia, Justice Thomas, and Justice Alito are Roman Catholic. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>In contrast, when the decision concerning Roe v Wade was announced in 1973 eight of the nine male justices were members of main stream Protestant churches. There may or may not be a direct correlation between religion affiliation and legal opinions, but it is my firm belief that unearned gender privilege nurtured in the cradle, and deferred to in the church certainly creates an atmosphere that celebrates and bestows unique privilege for male members. And, what could possibly more be patriarchal than controlling women’s reproductive choices?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rose Huskey<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>