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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Why should there be such real-world consequences for a
conversation he had with his girlfriend that he did not expect to
be broadcast globally? That's the point that I think is being
missed in the race to condemn him for his views. It's not like he
said all this at a press conference.<br>
<br>
Not to mention whether or not this reactionary holier-than-thou
attitude I see plastered all over the news actually helps the
situation. If racists could discuss their views without immediate
backlash and real-world consequences, we might be able to have a
helpful dialog. Anyone in power with views that someone somewhere
might consider racist are going to make damn sure they don't get
recorded saying anything like that now. Does that actually help?
This reminds me of an NPR segment I listened to concerning
pedophiles who had not acted on any of their impulses looking for
a way to discuss their views without being condemned for them.
Same situation there. Now we are in a situation where a person
might have grown up racist and is struggling with it and now they
can't mention it to anyone or they might lose their job or the
prize they earned or fail to get their next promotion or
whatever. How does that actually help?<br>
<br>
In some ways, people are becoming more fundamentalist about this
than they are about religion.<br>
<br>
And as for the bell metaphor, sure we can't unring it. But we
could not let it provoke an immediate Pavlovian response in us.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 05/04/2014 08:29 PM, Sue Hovey wrote:<br>
</div>
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#000000">
<div>Scott,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The whole issue of racism for me is that so very often I
need to examine my own responses. I could take some comfort
in the fact that most of my generation is racist whether we
acknowledge it or not. But I try not to do that. And when
I hear someone my age begin a statement with the assertion,
“I’m not racist, but...” I generally conclude they are and
are in a self delusional mode. But as you say, we cannot
unring that bell, so what comes next is a result of what has
gone before and there seems not to be a productive reason to
look for a way to rationalize, excuse, or spring to
Sterling’s defense. And certainly I have no desire to do
that. I appreciated Leonard Pitts’ article in today’s
Tribune, in which he discusses the racist comments of
Sterling and Bundy. He concludes with the words, “But many
of us don’t really understand what they purport to condemn.
Otherwise how could there be all this noise about that which
doesn’t matter and silence about that which does. Examples
to which he pointed: black vs. white prison sentences for
similar crimes, the execution rates of minority males,
arrests based on skin color, the list goes on..... </div>
<div> </div>
<div>And thanks for the kudos, deserved or not.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sue </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="scooterd408@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott Dredge</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:31 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="suehovey@moscow.com"
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] Political
correctness run amok</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
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<div dir="ltr">Sue,<br>
<br>
Kudos to you for not knee jerking like so many others when
anyone cries 'racism' on a list server. I'm not all that
thrilled either about a private conversation being turned
into a viral sensation and a public relations nightmare.
But there is no way to unring this bell and the NBA needs
to protect their billion dollar empire so things just move
on to the next phase of issuing the max penalty levied by
the NBA (no brainer as Donovan pointed out) and ultimately
forcing Sterling to sell the team. I'm guessing that V.
Stiviano won't be able to find another billionaire sugar
daddy but might be able to land a good size payday for a
tell all book. She might also get a pretty penny for
posing in a nudie magazine or two.<br>
<br>
-Scott<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 17:56:51 -0700<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok<br>
<br>
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COLOR: #000000">
<div>Sure, I know that. And Tinker wasn’t a good
example for me to use for that reason. But, I
still think the application of the principal is
the same. Now folks are calling it a privacy
issue. That’s interesting. A goodly number are
really selective about what constitutes a right to
privacy. If it’s a woman’s right to choose (for
example) there is no right to privacy, they say.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sue </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
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<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 30, 2014
9:22 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision
2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020]
Political correctness run amok</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
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<div dir="ltr">Sue,<br>
<br>
The First Amendment was implicated in Tinker
because the school board is a state actor. It's
not implicated here because the NBA is not a
state actor.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:09:39 -0700<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political
correctness run amok<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<div>But in Tinker v. Des Moines SD the
issue was all about 1st Amendment Rights
and did not involve government
censorship or prosecution...made clear
in the case...nevertheless the ruling
was her first amendment rights “did not
stop at the school house door.” </div>
<div>sue h </div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="scooterd408@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott Dredge</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 29,
2014 3:50 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Vision2020] Political correctness
run amok</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small;
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<div dir="ltr">Donald Sterling's First
Amendment rights are fully intact as
he's not facing censorship from the
government and he's also not facing
prosecution for what he said in
private. Apparently on the same tape,
Sterling said 'I love black people',
but the conversation needs to be
taking in totality and full context
and not reduced, as usual, to only a
few sound bytes that resonate with Tom
Hansen rendering a verdict &
decree.<br>
<br>
Also interesting to note is that the
NAACP was planning to give Sterling a
2nd lifetime achievement award on May
15th. Sterling received his first
NAACP award 5 years ago.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/donald-sterling-naacp-award"
target="_blank">http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/donald-sterling-naacp-award</a><br>
<br>
All of this is so...what's the right
phrase...black and white?<br>
<br>
-Scott<br>
<div>
<div>
<div><span> </span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Apr 29, 2014, at 3:19 PM, "Sue
Hovey" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
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<div>Frankly, I think he’s a
“dirty old man” with a
great looking young woman
friend, and his prejudices
and bigotry extend far
beyond what he has just
said. Even so, it would
seem to me he has a First
Amendment right to say
what he thinks. Not
knowing what the bylaws of
the NBA say to this issue,
I do wonder how they can
ban him from games when he
owns the team, and I
imagine the courts will be
asked to resolve that
issue. If the KKK has a
First Amendment right to
march down the streets of
American cities (and I
don’t argue they do) then
maybe Magic Johnson should
just have to “suck it
up.” I believe the First
Amendment is
precious...and yes, there
are consequences for
speech that harms, but we
have to be very wary of
consequences for something
that is purely speech and
not overt behavior, which
is discrimination and
often illegal. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Perhaps the NBA could
look into the Cliven Bundy
case and remove him from
his ranch just as Sterling
has been removed from the
Arena. Well maybe their
bylaws don’t extend that
far. Damn. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sue H. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt
tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:
#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="rforce2003@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">Ron
Force</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, April 29,
2014 2:14 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="moscowlocksmith@gmail.com"
href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">Gary
Crabtree</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="godshatter@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="Vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Vision2020]
Political
correctness run amok</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:
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<div style="FONT-SIZE:
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neue, helvetica, arial,
lucida grande,
sans-serif; COLOR: #000;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<div><span>It wasn't
just "black people"
dude, it was Magic
Johnson!</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ron Force <br>
Moscow Idaho USA</div>
<div
class="ecxyahoo_quoted"
style="DISPLAY: block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:
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style="FONT-SIZE:
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'Helvetica Neue',
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'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font
face="Arial"
size="2">On
Tuesday, April
29, 2014 1:59
PM, Gary
Crabtree <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font></div>
<blockquote
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<div
class="ecxy_msg_container">
<div
id="ecxyiv1557467982">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The guy
should be
thanking his
lucky stars
that he wasn't
illegally
taped stating
that he
believed that
marriage
should be
between a man
and a women
exclusively.
They would be
calling for a
total
confiscation
of all his
worldly goods
and a summary
execution.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>g</div>
</div>
<div
class="ecxyiv1557467982gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="ecxyiv1557467982gmail_quote">On
Tue, Apr 29,
2014 at 12:48
PM, Paul
Rumelhart <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="ecxyiv1557467982gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:
1ex; MARGIN:
0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT:
#ccc 1px
solid">Donald
Sterling has
now been
banned for
life from
games and
practices by
the NBA and
fined $2.5
million
dollars. Why?
Because he was
recorded
saying bad
things about
black people
in a PRIVATE
conversation
he was having
with his
girlfriend.
One that was
very likely
recorded
illegally.
Does this
strike anyone
here as being
over-the-top?
Or am I the
only one not
on the "OMG!
He said bad
things about
black people!"
bandwagon?<br>
<br>
I hate that we
have become a
nation of
nattering
ninnies.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
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