<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Roger Falen stated:</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"Tom said that he knew people in the army that were discriminated against because they were gay."</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">I NEVER said that, Mr. Falen. What I said was . . .</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">"</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">During my career in the Army, I have known several homosexual soldiers, both male and female.</span><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">They did not have the privilege of publicly expressing their sexuality."</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2014-March/095742.html">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2014-March/095742.html</a></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">There is a difference in one's inability to publicly disclose their sexuality . . . and discrimination against one because of their sexuality.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Up until just recently, in almost all cases, if a soldier was identified as homosexual, they were administered a general discharge for the good of the service . . . without benefits.</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Although I knew of several homosexual soldiers, during my career in the Army, I NEVER disclosed this informaton to anybody.</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Ok?</span></div><br><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a href="http://www.moscowcares.com/" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><font color="#000000">http://www.MoscowCares.com</font></a></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Tom Hansen</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Moscow, Idaho</span></div></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"There's room at the top they are telling you still.</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">- John Lennon</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></div></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>On Mar 8, 2014, at 11:49 AM, lfalen <<a href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><span></span><br><span>Saundra says that the percentage do not mater. I agree with that. Discrimination against any law abiding citizen should be discouraged and prohibited where their rights are violated. All people should be accorded equal protection of the law. Tom said that he knew people in the army that were discriminated against because they were gay. I got out of the army in 1964. I knew people who were gay also. No one I know off treated them any differently than anyone else. I am sure however that there are cases where they are abused. What I am trying to say is that every one should be treated the same before the law and I would encourage everyone to treat those that are different in any way with respect and decency One must be careful, however, not to infringe upon the right of people to associate with whomever they choose. My point was that everyone should be treated with respect, but not to</span><br><span>made a big deal out of someone's condition, what ever that my be. It should not be hyped. </span><br><span>For the most part you have stuck to arguments in this post ( your last sentence though was out of line). Your previous posts where you call people stupid only reflects on you. Intelligent people have different views. It does not become you or help your argument by trying to belittle them by demeaning their intelligence.</span><br><span>Roger</span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message----- </span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: "Saundra Lund" <<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: 03/08/14 02:24 </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . . </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Wrong, Gary -- it's only people like you who opt to distort things. That</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>survey captures ONLY those who *publicly* identify as LGBT:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/special-report-adults-identify-lgbt.aspx">http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/special-report-adults-identify-lgbt.aspx</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"As a group still subject to social stigma, many of those who identify as</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender may not be forthcoming about this</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>identity when asked about it in a survey. Therefore, it's likely that some</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Americans in what is commonly referred to as "the closet" would not be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>included in the estimates derived from the Gallup interviews. Thus, the 3.4%</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>estimate can best be represented as adult Americans who publicly identify</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>themselves as part of the LGBT community when asked in a survey context."</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>You know, kind of like inaccurate survey results about masturbation . . . or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>survey results that report the average size of an unaroused male penis.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sucks to be you. Or all those surveys that proved . . . PROVED I tell you .</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>. . that marijuana use inevitably lead to harder drug use.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Besides, does it matter whether it's 10%, 5%, 1%, or 0.1% of Americans whose</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are denied equal protection of the Constitutional? Not to me, and it better</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>not to someone like you who worships at the 2A alter. While statistics show</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that that the number of guns owned per individual has increased (due, IMO,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to clear mental illness in the form of paranoia), the percentage of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>households that own guns has fallen below a majority (I think the 34% +/- 3%</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>stat is likely pretty accurate). If you don't care that 10% of Americans</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are denied equal protection, you'd better hope the rest of us don't share</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>your rank hypocrisy and blatant disregard of the entire Constitution.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>S</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Behalf Of Gary Crabtree</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 12:57 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Scott Dredge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: viz</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Nobody buys the old Kinsey report numbers any more. Please see:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-h">http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-h</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ow-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The usual 10% or the same as whatever the statistical norm is of the </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the broader population unless there is some evidence to show that a </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>higher proportion of gays are prone to enlisting in the military. </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Also, the time frame of Vietnam was the 'era of free love' and some </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>people who would otherwise have felt pressured by their church and </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>family to live a heterosexual lifestyle might have simply accepted </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that they were born gay given a more 'live and let live' environment </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>outside areas of the Deep South and Mid-west.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 08:48:23 -0800</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Of the 58,000+ names engraved on the Vietnam Memorial Wall, how many </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>would you estimate belong to gay soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Moscow Cares"</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Tom Hansen</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Moscow, Idaho</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>======================================================= List services </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>=======================================================</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>